Originally Posted by CAirBear

Good for them in getting legit 121 exp, but I will say this.

Ill be 100% honest and tell you what 90% everyone else is too scared to say. It really ****es me off the argument MIL guys are better than Reg pilots. Heres why. For the record, I personally, know how i feel anout the military. My thoughts/views are my own. I could care less what anyone thinks about me. I will say this.

What do RJ pilots do every single F'n day? Thats right they fly into the SAME hubs, carrying the SAME F'n passengers from podunk USA to connect to NYC, LAX and every other major US Metropolitan for the legacies.

Heres whats idiotic. Do you honestly think any competent RJ CA, or senior competent RJ FO, is going to fail out of newhire training at mainline? A VAST majority = Hell no. They do the same god damn job!!!!! They only damn thing they are learning is a bigger plane and new company FOM and procedures. Yet certain legacies (cough cough Delta) have a raging hardon to hire military over an RJ guy who does the same job.

I realize this will be a moot point with the number of retirements soon, but it is crazy how, somehow, military jocks have such a tremendously better skill set than guys doing the same exact job, all intents and purpose.

Originally Posted by SEPfield

No one is saying military pilots are better than regional pilots. If you look at it from a purely experience standpoint, then yes regional pilots that have been flying in and out of the same hubs for years would be the obvious choice. However the major airlines are looking for more than just the experience.

What the military pilots posses that is missing from most regional pilots is what I would call the "mission mindset" Military pilots, especially recently separated military pilots, approach the job of flying the airplane as a mission. They feel it is their duty to get the airplane from point A to point B no matter what.

Regional pilots on the other hand feel it is there job to get the airplane from point A to point B in the safest and most efficient manner within the confines of FAR 117 and the contract.

Military pilots are used to following orders and are more likely to waive provisions of the contract to help the company (thus completing the mission) than a regional pilot that has been getting screwed for 6-15 years. Military pilots are less familiar with working under a union and a contract and less comfortable with telling people no.

I was former enlisted military and it takes time to change from thinking "this is a mission that must be accomplished" to realizing "this is a job that I will do my best at, within the confines of the contract"

If legacy carriers were really concerned with knowledge and experience then the interview would still consist of ATP test and simulators, instead it consist of hogan test, personality assessments, and HR meetings.

They assume we are all nearly equal in terms or trainability, mold ability, and adaptability. They are looking for the individuals that will work hardest to ensure the companies mission success. Since military pilots in general already conform to a certain mold, it is far easier for the legacies to draw from that pool than it is to screen thousands of regional pilots.

Originally Posted by SayAlt

It's really quite simple, military vs. civilian. I'll just skip right over the selection process and quality of individual because that right there separates civilian vs. military. What else?

Military pilots have self-discipline. It was instilled into them, and they HAD to have it. Teamwork, too. Mission over self mentality. And don't even get me started on ability to cope with stress. Lives depended upon it...a heckava lot more than in civilian flying. Civilian briefings/de-briefings and flight planning vs. military isn't even worth comparing. It's night and day difference.

And training? A military pilot's training is 10x more valuable than the avg. training a civilian receives. Not even worth comparing.

All of this breeds a person (military aviation) that comes with a "street cred" that a civilian-only pilot doesn't have. That's not to say a civvy doesn't have the capabilities for these things or doesn't possess them already, but the employers KNOW the mil guys have it. No question.

And I say all that as someone who wasn't military. I'll say one other thing too...

If I can let a military guy/gal who served me and mine in line in front of me, I'm grateful for the opportunity to do something more than just say "thank you for your service" to them.




That damn fine man did more in service to our country than you will ever do with your's. You aren't even worth the belly-lint in his navel, and you just proved it with your DB's spew.

Originally Posted by HighFlight

So let's compare oranges to oranges. Who do you think will perform better after the third OE flight? A military guy with 3,000 TT (zero 121 experience), or the C-172 CFI who has 1,000 TT (zero 121 experience)?

Originally Posted by Drum

Standard pifall you've fallen for regarding hours. A fighter guy/gal is lucky to get maybe 250 hours in a year. Most of our sorties are around 1.1 avg duration with maybe flying 3-4 times a week. So that 1500 to 1800 FO you saw probably has about 8+ years of high performance jet time under their belt. Mil heavy drivers will generally have more flight time in same timeframe given their longer sortie durations.

No one here is telling you anything Celeste, it is the airline hiring Dept that are speaking to you. Don't hate on the ex mil folks. They are there because there's obviously something the majors want from that sort of pilot.

If it were left to me, I would have all flying brought in-house to the majors where it belongs and scrap this whole "regional" concept, but we all know the story there don't we.

Originally Posted by 1stCivDivPilot

Put you in a simulator running the same scenario and 99 out of 100 times you'd be a smear on the ground with hundreds of casualties. His ability to assess the situation, make decisions and react after the stuff hit the fan is far greater than yours and he's a better pilot. Human error happens everywhere. That doesn't change the fact that side by side at the end of the day a military trained pilot is a better pilot and a better employee. If it wasn't true the majors wouldn't seek out mil guys and hire them at lower hours. If that burns you up, that's your problem. Sorry you can't accept reality.

Originally Posted by iFlyRC

Capt. Sully types out there, I have yet to meet some one who flew with him or worked with him that had anything nice to say about him. Arrogance, superiority complex, total disrespect for anyone younger, and a view that if you weren't prior military, you're not a real pilot. Yes, I could just imagine working with people like that! I am sure they are textbook examples of CRM. At least the younger guys coming from the military have shown to be humble professionals.

Originally Posted by Chupacabras

Endeavor has a 15% washout rate for new hires currently according to folks in the training department.

Originally Posted by Ellen

That's because regionals are hiring warm bodies and not pilots. Training failures will crush your airline career so be careful.