Xdashdriver

United can already add the NSNBs and increase outsourced 76 seaters under their current deal without any extension.

FirstClass

There is another parallel conversation on this topic happening here, worth looking at.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ua...ab-carrot.html

BeatNavy

Yeah that's my point...their offer is to extend their current contract, and they can instead negotiate a new contract that takes new large regionals away or at least prevents them from coming on propriety and limits scope to its current existence. But they are the ones who sold scope over the last couple decades so I doubt things will change much. Small carrot for me? Sure I'll screw people behind me. That's the sentiment that got us here.

24/48

Lots of good points, rick air. Mainline pilot groups have wised up because there are more and more of us at mainline who have flown at the regionals and seen what scope relief does. Current MGTOW in the UPA is 86,000 lbs. Skywest and TSA have orders for the E175-E2, and the MRJ which both are well over the 86,000 lbs limit.

Folks, this is an excellent example of someone stating opinion as fact! What BeatNavy doesn't know is that the UAL MEC added an amendment that section 1 scope is not on the table for these discussions, and that is the only way it passed the MEC. Nice try painting us as weak-money-hungry-mainliners though!

Exactly!! UAL needs a lot from the pilots to make routes like SFO-SYD etc to work as FAR 117 has really posed an issue on some of these long haul routes. The company just announced a bunch more routes of similar length that would fall in with this.

You make some good points when it comes to historical perspective, however, you seem to be of the opinion that we just want to perpetuate the decline. I can tell you that the majority of us do not, and our MEC has acted on that so scope is not on the table for this extension.

BeatNavy

If ALPA/mainline pilots were serious about fixing this problem they created, mainline pilot groups would be pressing for extremely reduced contract feed, bringing 76 seaters and 100 seaters in house and removing the express from the paint job. That would fix this mythical pilot shortage in a flash.

I think the pendulum is swinging back towards making things better, but I believe it could happen faster. I also think as more former regional guys go to majors, that helps things. The old who voted in contracts allowing contract feed are retiring, and the effects of the past scope sales are being seen. That said, I have talked to several mainline guys, some are friends of mine, at each of the legacies, who blame regional pilots for taking all the flying and racing to the bottom, etc. When I ask them who voted in the scope clause allowing regional jets to fly their pax, it's silent. Most are mil guys who didn't have to pay regional dues and think regional pilots are second class citizens who run around trying to fly jets for free. Most of the DAL guys I've talked to are more concerned with scope clauses as it affects their wide body fleet (mgmt is trying to get fewer wide bodies in the failed DAL TA with joint venture agreements with foreign carriers). I've heard some of the same guys say they won't fly a 100 seat jet, much less a 76 seater, because it's a downgrade from their current 73/bus, and they are mainline pilots and not regional pilots for a reason, so they don't want those planes on property.

You see, most people care about the career in front of them, not the path behind them to get there. Preserving the carrot of widebody captain is relevant to them and talked about. Regional jets? Most mainline guys I've talked to don't care much either way about them. It's about self preservation. That's part of human nature, and that is what ALPA and management have exploited to decimate the airline pilot profession. It's moving back in the right direction because there is a shortage of pilots willing to work in this horrible regional industry. But it can get better faster.

Fetzervalve

Looks like a mainline aircraft but I think it will have the same number of seats as the E175 for obvious scope reasons. I think Trans States and SkyWest have orders for it............

Photos: Mitsubishi MRJ-90STD Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

24/48

I understand what you are saying, and in fact, most of the pilots I fly with understand. However, we also know that we can not just snap our fingers to make it happen. Though we increased the gauge in the UPA, we greatly reduced management's ability to contract out feed, use international codeshares, etc. The "scope choke" is working, and I agree with you, that ideally UAL would love to throw us some serious cash to relax that scope some more, but my MEC has spoken and the answer is no. UAL can get as many of the E175's, etc as they want as long as they are flown by United pilots under the UPA. So any question, or reservations you may have about UAL pilots caving on scope can be put to rest as it ain't gonna happen!

FirstClass

To heavy to be used at regionals even if seats removed.

WesternSkies

I think they were optimistic that they had gotten everything they've wanted so far, why not MRJs too and if that didn't work they could use them to get better deals from Canada or Brazil. The highest probability is that the orders will be cancelled or sold.

FirstClass

Yep I think they were assuming scope relief.