amcnd

Exactaly... Ask a Eagle guy hired in 1999 how his 2 year to flow is going...

inky13

Flow Through Agreement to American Airlines:

All pilots (including new-hires) are eligible for flow-through to American Airlines without interviewing. There are now four “groups” of flow-through pilots, with two groups having a “trigger date” that increases the amount of pilots to flow to American:

Group: "The 824"Group: "The Protected Pilots"Group: "The BK Kids"Group: "After DOS"I'm just pointing out that it's not always 50%. Also: Hopefully that answers the OP's question about Envoy's flow.

Skyvector

Flow for people currently being hired is six years. Look at the following chart:

Attachment 2415

Unless you have a time machine and plan on going back and being hired in 1999, it is disingenuous to talk about who is "currently" flowing as if that is an indicator of how long it will take current new hires to flow.

Live in the past all you want. Everyone at AA from the CEO down has emphasized over and over that flow through Envoy will be the fastest path to mainline. They have not only talked about it, they have continued to show it over and over by having Envoy pilots be over 60% of each class when the requirement is only 50%.

AMC190

Which company has the fastest flow for someone hired this year?

RyanP

Envoy flowthrough numbers:

FlameNSky

Based on this logic, why bother going to a regional with a "quick upgrade" The company is full of guys that have been with the company 15 - 20 years waiting to be hired by Delta, United, or American. Since these guys have clearly not been hired by this companies during the last 15 years, you would clearly be wasting your time going there since the hiring practices for the next 15 years in this industry will be dictated by the hiring practices during the "Lost Decade".

Come on guys, I understand your desire to down play the flow for your own benefit but surely your are smart enough to not expect people to think the flow will be the same while AA has the largest hiring wave in 30 years as it was during a 13 year period of ZERO HIRING.

Apokleros

What is the likelihood though that the flow will be honored when it is your time to choose yes or no? I have heard that major airlines annul flow-agreements whenever it does not suit their end-goals. The flow is attractive to me as well, and Envoy was not on my list of regionals for which I wanted to work yesterday, but I will surely reconsider so long as I can be reasonably assured that once I begin working for Envoy, I will have a spot awaiting me at AA....

Just a guy wanting to get into the 121 world and has only just begun to discover its confusing details.

Skyvector

For American Airlines, and specifically AA CEO Doug Parker, the flow is their future. They are counting on it to staff their wholly owned Regionals (in particular Envoy and Piedmont).

The current flow, as it stands, is Doug Parker's baby. He is extremely proud of it and talks it up like a proud father every chance he gets. The new AA not only believes in flow, they have gone "all in" so to speak.

Their theory goes that in lieu of raising pay at the Regional level they will provide a streamlined, expedited path to AA where the real money is. That streamlined path to AA will attract new hires rather than just simply raising first year pay a little and telling your pilots "good luck on your job hunt" as Republic is trying (and failing) to do with their pilots.

So yes, the flow will be honored and is here for the long run. It's the way of the future and is certainly something that will forever be associated with AA.

RyanP

They can't just "annul" it. Barring another bankruptcy and getting contracts flushed down the toilet. The flow is contractual and arbitrated awards. It would be like them saying OK, I know your contractual pay rate is $80/hr but we just aren't going to pay you that anymore because it doesn't suit our needs.. I guess they "could" do that whenever they feel like it, but it will go to court, and they will very likely lose and have to make it right with damages, back pay etc...

They have not ever thrown out any flow yet.. The old letter 3 flow from MANY years ago was convoluted and had lots of problems and delays, and then we had flowbacks from AA come back down to Eagle due to the massive AA furloughs around 9/11 that lasted until just a few years ago. Also AA didn't hire anyone for over a decade up until 2013 (so of course there was no flow through that time for all those years, and it's why people on the forums always say "look" how long the Envoy flow is.. without understanding WHY.. NO NEW HIRES AT AA FOR 13 YEARS!!).. But NOW, since the AA furloughs have been recalled (one last batch left to go if they want to return) and hiring has resumed in 2013.. The flow has been working and they are honoring it (actually better then they are required to do). If you look at the above chart, hiring this year has been kinda slow at AA.. but they have still given us 65% of the class slots for the year. They are only required to give us 50% of new hire positions. Next year AA hiring projections are around 700 I believe. Someone correct me If I'm off a bit here.. Can't remember exactly what that announcement said.

There is more good info about flow and movement further down the page on the other Envoy thread: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...signments.html

I really don't know of any other flow over the last decade, since I have been in this industry that was ever just "annulled". Compass/Northwest flow is being honored by Delta.. Piedmont/USair to AA.. PSA or Endeavor isn't really a flow, just a preferential interview.. What other one's is there?

FlameNSky

How creditable is your source of this information? For starters, AA is the ONLY airline with a current flow program. Delta is flowing Compass guys from a discontinued Flow that they had started with NWA and they only offer guaranteed interviews to Endeavor pilots. United has unilaterally stated they will never set up a flow program. The only airlines with an actual true flow (not requiring an interview and offer of employment) is envoy and PDT. PSA only guarantees you an interview at AA. (Stick around and we might or might not offer you a job one day) Since AA has began hiring again, they have always met the obligations of that flow and NEVER annulled such programs. Never. Please read between the lines of some of the posters concerning the flow. Many, I would guess are former envoy pilots that were spooked by the pressure Parker put on us and bailed for other regional airlines chasing quick upgrades. I would guess the rest are employees of non wholly owned companies that are fearful that they might be the next airline that announces stagnation and shrinking due to their inability to staff their Air Service Agreements.