Bootleg

What this anal orifice (fegelein) is doing is a thinly veiled slight aimed towards the c-scale pilots (see, I have discontinued using the word regional).

He's likening them to minimum wage entry level jobs, such as McDonald's, hence the burger-flipping analogy. His condescending tone leaves little doubt that he thinks himself, and his A and B scale brothers to be superior to the lowly c-scale pilot in every way.

See, back in the day, it was all turbo prop. 19 seat metros and jet streams. Then came the Saabs and Brazilias, and the Dash8 30 plus seats. The ATRs were in there too with 40 plus or 70 plus. Ahh. Then the shiny jets started showing up. (See the gap between what C-scale and A/B scale narrowing?). Oh nuts! Here comes some bigger c-scale jets, even with engines mounted under the wings!! Now it's completely indistinguishable. Same job. Same responsibility. Same training. Same passengers. Same routes. Same altitudes. Same speeds. Same approaches and departures.

Less than half the pay.




Shut up and go home little boy---nothing for you here.




Disclaimer----if I have left off anyone's turbo prop from the above list I do apologize. I had 8000 plus hours in the Saab---you can see what that would do to a guy, right?

Mesabah

Fegelein is bating all of you. He failed to get hired at a regional, and now works for one of the mid tier cargo companies.

bedrock

Yep. 'bating is what his thread is.

bedrock

Yet it was in cruise where AF 447 began it's end. It was at FL 400 where Pinnacle pilots made the errors that ended their lives. It was in cruise where Alaska 261 lost control, etc., etc. It sure was easy, until SHTF. Are you sure you are not new to this industry? Cathay hires cruise pilots because they can and there exists the MPL which allows it. It doesn't mean it's a good idea. BTW, flame baiting with insults doesn't work on me. The only reason I comment on these things is for those who might believe some of this BS.

gloopy

You've mentioned that split before, numerous times, and I'm sorry but it just destroys your credibility when you do so. Which is a shame, because you mostly make good arguments for many things.

I know you've quoted the (United I think? Whatever) official filings that "prove under penalty of intergalactic perjury" that 94% of their profits came from their express operation. I don't believe it, and neither does anyone else. Anyone. Not even you.

You really think an airline operation that has 800ish mainline planes and 400ish RJ's averaging about a quarter the size and carrying a quarter to less of the pax and almost none of the cargo could possibly make 94% of the profits? If so, why are all the airlines parking them and transferring block hours to their mainline? So they can make 94% less profits? You really think there is enough pilot or total labor cost differential to fuel that much of a profit differential? If so, from where? RJ's, even the big ones, are an expensive seat and labor per pax cost is actually fairly high.

You really, actually think, that these global behemoths printing billions per quarter are really just small regional powerhouse ticket agents carrying the deadweight of a massive global alliance?

I don't care what spreadsheet or filing form you think you saw, there is no way regionals are makins 94% of billion(s) per quarter per airline in profits. No way. And you don't believe that either.

Fred Reid, is that you?

Ludicrous Speed

That wasn't even a good try at a back-pedal and you completely missed my point. The fact remains is that your post is an attempt to impress and in the least, is something that a newbie would say. Your citing examples of cruise accidents have nothing to do with it.

As for flame-baiting and insults, pot meet kettle.

Caveman

From the financial reports I've read, it appears as though the Regional model is thriving actually. Seriously, they are doing better than ever, and even more profitable than some of the Major airlines they feed, if you consider scale.

I'll put it back on you.....to prove there's a pilot shortage. What metric are you using?

The metric I'm using is the package of compensation/QOL/schedule for entry level positions. In my humble opinion this is the single most accurate point of performance to determine if there's a labor shortage in a given market, as it directly reflects the compensation/QOL/schedule requirements necessary to attract new applicants to the labor pool.

It appears as though there's quite a few pilots....literally tens of thousands of pilots, that feel they are being adequately compensated for well under the U.S. Median wage while operating transport category jet aircraft under FAR 121.

So again, I'll put it back on you.....not to be argumentative, but to draw out your perspective.....what metric(s) are you using to state there's a pilot shortage?

What is the starting wage/guarantee at your airline for a new pilot?

What's the total compensation for the first 3 years of employment?

Have you compared that to what one would earn at 36 months of wages at the U.S. Median Income level?

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/20/news...median-income/

Mesabah

The person who wrote those financial reports sure believes it. Look I don't know why you are mad at me, I'm simply showing what the data presents. Do I believe it? Well, I know that the airline pricing model is so convoluted that it doesn't surprise if this was the case.

To explain why mainline is getting rid of regional jets is very simple, they aren't, they are dumping unprofitable routes. Where demand is strong, they are switching to mainline planes. On the surface it appears that mainline is recapturing flying. However, they are simply consolidating flying so they can better utilize the aircraft they have in the profitable routes.

The pilot shortage is not yet an issue, but will be in a year or two(this is a direct quote from management at my last recurrent).

It may be hard for some to believe, but legacy's don't make money in the routes they compete with LCC's in. You have to have pricing power in a market to make money, that is business 101. If you look at the legacy network as a whole, the places they have pricing power, is where the RJ's are.

It defies logic, and I know what you are saying, but here is maybe a video that describes what I'm talking about. Fast forward in this CNBC video http://www.hulu.com/watch/46550 to around 1:27 min, where he says the 767 transcon only makes $200. Just for reference, almost every RJ flight makes tens of thousands of dollars. Is it still so hard to believe?

I think the best way to sum this up, is Southwest has destroyed the Legacy model. It's now just a large operation that holds market share to feed the regionals.

Thedude

Yup, so easy that everybody does it.
Guess that is why commercial (or higher) licensed pilots are less than 1% of the population of the US.

Yup, the commuters are entry level jobs not un-unlike Mickey D's.
One major difference. Mickey D's employees are unskilled labor while pilots are skilled labor even at the beginning of their airline careers and should be compensated higher than un-skilled labor.

The commuters have had a glut of available pilots over the last decade (or more) so they could be picky and pay (abysmally) lower wages. Now those days are coming to an end and the now those companies that have been making money hand-over-fist by not paying their pilots are the ones screaming bloody murder.
2bad2sad.

Come on Fegelin, what self-loathing management puke are you?

WhiskeyTangoF

Where do I get my get out of jail free card from the FAA since I'm just an entry level pilot. According to what you're saying, I'm just learning how to fly airplanes, and am considered to be 'in training,' and therefore do not share the same responsibilities as the big boys nor deserve compensation commensurate said responsibilities.

When in your infinite wisdom does this entry level end? Why does it end at a different time for some? For example, if I was a minority or a woman, it appears I would gain the necessary skills to move beyond this entry level position faster. Why is that? Are they born with innate knowledge of flying? What happens when your airline goes defunct, or the pilot group gets too top heavy. Now you've spent 7 or 8 years as "newbie, entry level pilot," and have to start over at another airline. Are you still considered entry level by your standards?