Air Traffic Control Service Quality
01-26-2007, 05:42 AM
#1
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: C402-C
Posts: 2
Air Traffic Control Service Quality
ATTENTION PILOTS, I NEED MORE OF YOUR INPUT!!!
I am a fellow pilot and a starving Ph.D. student who is in need of your assistance to help improve the quality of services you receive from your air traffic control provider.
Never before has a study been conducted in the academic arena asking pilots what they think of the services provided to them by their air traffic control provider. This is your chance to personally weigh in on the matter.
The purpose of the survey is to compare the quality of air traffic control services pilots receive in both Canada and the United States as the United States is considering modeling its air traffic control system after Canada’s user-fee air traffic control system. The results of this study will give air traffic control and government officials in both countries a valuable resource from which they might more efficiently position limited resources in the highest leverage places for us.
Completing the survey should take no more than 10 minutes.
Select the following link to take the survey:
Once the study is complete, the results will be posted in brief on this website for your review.
Thanks in advance!
Mike Essner
Capella University
I am a fellow pilot and a starving Ph.D. student who is in need of your assistance to help improve the quality of services you receive from your air traffic control provider.
Never before has a study been conducted in the academic arena asking pilots what they think of the services provided to them by their air traffic control provider. This is your chance to personally weigh in on the matter.
The purpose of the survey is to compare the quality of air traffic control services pilots receive in both Canada and the United States as the United States is considering modeling its air traffic control system after Canada’s user-fee air traffic control system. The results of this study will give air traffic control and government officials in both countries a valuable resource from which they might more efficiently position limited resources in the highest leverage places for us.
Completing the survey should take no more than 10 minutes.
Select the following link to take the survey:
Once the study is complete, the results will be posted in brief on this website for your review.
Thanks in advance!
Mike Essner
Capella University
01-26-2007, 06:16 AM
#3
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,618
I like that Canadian controllers say "roger" after a readback, verifying that you read back the correct clearance. I've heard there is a liability issue in CA with controllers; I'm not sure of that, but I appreciate somebody correcting me if I mistakenly read back the wrong thing.
01-26-2007, 06:17 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: FO, looking left
Posts: 1,060
Our ATC system is the envy of the world. I don't know if I want to give you an answer though before October 2007. If the FAA changes to a user-fee system, our national airspace system will go to h*ll just like every other country on the planet. Right now it is great!
01-26-2007, 06:55 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,750
Have you ever flown in another country? I have and I can guarantee you that the US system is not the best there is.
How many times do you call Center and get no answer, no acknowledgement? Nothing. So you call again. But because you waited, now there are two people talking over each other. This kind of thing happens all the time. A simple "Stand-By AWI 3890" would be great. I would wait and nobody else would try to butt in. This lack of radio discipline was not evident in Europe.
There is a total lack of discipline on the part of pilots and controllers. I once met a controller from Washington Center and asked him what is really going on when they come back and say, "Say Again. I was on the land line." Were they really on the land line? His answer? "No, they were probably screwing around with the guy next to them." He said that about 75% of those callouts about being on the landline are bogus.
The best controllers I have ever worked with are in Chicago, especially the Approach, Departure, Center, Ground and Tower. About covers it, doesn't it? London is a close second. Paris was also good. CDG is a busy airport and they know how to 'git 'er done'. But Chicago is in a league of its own. Excellent. Efficient. Disciplined. Flexible.
The worst, by far, were at Dulles.
The US system is not the envy of the world. Trust me.
What IS good about the US ATC system is that they tend to be flexible when you are polite and work with them. But from a staffing point of view and technology point of view, the US ATC system is behind the times. The European controllers are very good and from what I have seen, have superior technology.
Just telling it like it is.
Last edited by saab2000; 01-26-2007 at 07:08 AM.
01-26-2007, 07:45 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Posts: 3,732
Excuse me??!!??
Have you ever flown in another country? I have and I can guarantee you that the US system is not the best there is.
How many times do you call Center and get no answer, no acknowledgement? Nothing. So you call again. But because you waited, now there are two people talking over each other. This kind of thing happens all the time. A simple "Stand-By AWI 3890" would be great. I would wait and nobody else would try to butt in. This lack of radio discipline was not evident in Europe.
There is a total lack of discipline on the part of pilots and controllers. I once met a controller from Washington Center and asked him what is really going on when they come back and say, "Say Again. I was on the land line." Were they really on the land line? His answer? "No, they were probably screwing around with the guy next to them." He said that about 75% of those callouts about being on the landline are bogus.
The best controllers I have ever worked with are in Chicago, especially the Approach, Departure, Center, Ground and Tower. About covers it, doesn't it? London is a close second. Paris was also good. CDG is a busy airport and they know how to 'git 'er done'. But Chicago is in a league of its own. Excellent. Efficient. Disciplined. Flexible.
The worst, by far, were at Dulles.
The US system is not the envy of the world. Trust me.
What IS good about the US ATC system is that they tend to be flexible when you are polite and work with them. But from a staffing point of view and technology point of view, the US ATC system is behind the times. The European controllers are very good and from what I have seen, have superior technology.
Just telling it like it is.
Have you ever flown in another country? I have and I can guarantee you that the US system is not the best there is.
How many times do you call Center and get no answer, no acknowledgement? Nothing. So you call again. But because you waited, now there are two people talking over each other. This kind of thing happens all the time. A simple "Stand-By AWI 3890" would be great. I would wait and nobody else would try to butt in. This lack of radio discipline was not evident in Europe.
There is a total lack of discipline on the part of pilots and controllers. I once met a controller from Washington Center and asked him what is really going on when they come back and say, "Say Again. I was on the land line." Were they really on the land line? His answer? "No, they were probably screwing around with the guy next to them." He said that about 75% of those callouts about being on the landline are bogus.
The best controllers I have ever worked with are in Chicago, especially the Approach, Departure, Center, Ground and Tower. About covers it, doesn't it? London is a close second. Paris was also good. CDG is a busy airport and they know how to 'git 'er done'. But Chicago is in a league of its own. Excellent. Efficient. Disciplined. Flexible.
The worst, by far, were at Dulles.
The US system is not the envy of the world. Trust me.
What IS good about the US ATC system is that they tend to be flexible when you are polite and work with them. But from a staffing point of view and technology point of view, the US ATC system is behind the times. The European controllers are very good and from what I have seen, have superior technology.
Just telling it like it is.
01-26-2007, 07:47 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,750
Their ground control in PHL stinks, but I can put up with the rest.
BTW, I am working for an airline that goes into PHL all the time. I feel your pain. I just think that most of their problems are not their fault.
Dulles stands at the top of ****ty ATC.
01-26-2007, 07:48 AM
#9
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
The best controllers I have ever worked with are in Chicago, especially the Approach, Departure, Center, Ground and Tower. About covers it, doesn't it? London is a close second. Paris was also good. CDG is a busy airport and they know how to 'git 'er done'. But Chicago is in a league of its own. Excellent. Efficient. Disciplined. Flexible.
The worst, by far, were at Dulles.
The worst, by far, were at Dulles.
There's one, maybe two controllers at IAD in the tower that can move traffic(in addition to a few cool ramp control guys), but for the most part they have some serious issues, particularly when the weather goes down.
The worst thing is that they aren't open to change (or at least didn't seem to be). Anytime we suggested anything, it pretty much fell on deaf ears.
On the other hand, ORD is a place that still amazes me. I think part of what makes it go so smoothly is that operators in and out of there just know what they need to do and get it done- no BS asking for a different runway and no dragging heels. Just get in and get the hell out of the way, and ATC could care less. They sure as heck don't feel the need to micro-manage everything from the tower cab.
01-26-2007, 07:53 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
Excuse me??!!??
Have you ever flown in another country? I have and I can guarantee you that the US system is not the best there is.
How many times do you call Center and get no answer, no acknowledgement? Nothing. So you call again. But because you waited, now there are two people talking over each other. This kind of thing happens all the time. A simple "Stand-By AWI 3890" would be great. I would wait and nobody else would try to butt in. This lack of radio discipline was not evident in Europe.
There is a total lack of discipline on the part of pilots and controllers. I once met a controller from Washington Center and asked him what is really going on when they come back and say, "Say Again. I was on the land line." Were they really on the land line? His answer? "No, they were probably screwing around with the guy next to them." He said that about 75% of those callouts about being on the landline are bogus. I don't need to tell you about planes being vectored into mountains in south america, or being told to descend to unsafe altitudes in new zealand, we can all read the nightmarish stories of what goes on with ATC in other countries.
The best controllers I have ever worked with are in Chicago, especially the Approach, Departure, Center, Ground and Tower. About covers it, doesn't it? London is a close second. Paris was also good. CDG is a busy airport and they know how to 'git 'er done'. But Chicago is in a league of its own. Excellent. Efficient. Disciplined. Flexible.
The worst, by far, were at Dulles.
The US system is not the envy of the world. Trust me.
What IS good about the US ATC system is that they tend to be flexible when you are polite and work with them. But from a staffing point of view and technology point of view, the US ATC system is behind the times. The European controllers are very good and from what I have seen, have superior technology.
Just telling it like it is.
Have you ever flown in another country? I have and I can guarantee you that the US system is not the best there is.
How many times do you call Center and get no answer, no acknowledgement? Nothing. So you call again. But because you waited, now there are two people talking over each other. This kind of thing happens all the time. A simple "Stand-By AWI 3890" would be great. I would wait and nobody else would try to butt in. This lack of radio discipline was not evident in Europe.
There is a total lack of discipline on the part of pilots and controllers. I once met a controller from Washington Center and asked him what is really going on when they come back and say, "Say Again. I was on the land line." Were they really on the land line? His answer? "No, they were probably screwing around with the guy next to them." He said that about 75% of those callouts about being on the landline are bogus. I don't need to tell you about planes being vectored into mountains in south america, or being told to descend to unsafe altitudes in new zealand, we can all read the nightmarish stories of what goes on with ATC in other countries.
The best controllers I have ever worked with are in Chicago, especially the Approach, Departure, Center, Ground and Tower. About covers it, doesn't it? London is a close second. Paris was also good. CDG is a busy airport and they know how to 'git 'er done'. But Chicago is in a league of its own. Excellent. Efficient. Disciplined. Flexible.
The worst, by far, were at Dulles.
The US system is not the envy of the world. Trust me.
What IS good about the US ATC system is that they tend to be flexible when you are polite and work with them. But from a staffing point of view and technology point of view, the US ATC system is behind the times. The European controllers are very good and from what I have seen, have superior technology.
Just telling it like it is.
4%: Other human error (air traffic controller error, improper loading of aircraft, improper maintenance, fuel contamination, language miscommunication etc.) http://www.answers.com/topic/aviatio...-and-incidents So here in the USA and Canada we have not only the lowest amount of accidents than anywhere else in the world, but only 4% were caused by other human error, so the actual percentage of errors is lower since this percentage also includes fuelcontmination, bad maintenance, improper loading of airplane, etc. The problem with flying in other countries is the lack of radar coverage and its accurate use. There is almost no such a thing as Radar Vectors, outside the usa. Everyone else uses stars and sids,, and some are very complicated. So our controllers here are top notch, just because they dont jump at every little radio call doesn't mean the aren't doing their job, and doing it very GOOD. here is another good resource. http://aviation-safety.net/pubs/asn/...stics_2006.pdf
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