117 Rest Rules
05-21-2015, 01:35 PM
#1
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117 Rest Rules
It's been over a year since 117 rest and duty time requirements have been implemented. Just wondering if these rules are doing what they were designed to do? This question is directed more to the pilots who have worked prior to 117 being implemented . Are you getting more rest?
05-21-2015, 01:42 PM
#2
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Posts: 988
It's been over a year since 117 rest and duty time requirements have been implemented. Just wondering if these rules are doing what they were designed to do? This question is directed more to the pilots who have worked prior to 117 being implemented . Are you getting more rest?
What's more? Minimum of 10 hours of rest with a minimum of 8 hours behind the door OR 8 hours of rest with no minimum behind the door?
How about this. 14 hour max duty day with 2 legs (less if more legs or different report times) or 16 hours max duty day with 8 legs?
05-21-2015, 01:50 PM
#4
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Joined APC: Dec 2012
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Posts: 349
I think that for the most part it has cut down on reduced rest overnights which is good, and perhaps a small cap on FDP. There are some positives but I think the fact that the FAA has left it to the discretion of the companies to discipline as they see fit for extension refusals is egregious.
05-21-2015, 01:58 PM
#5
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Flying 7 hours in a 16 hour day is not more efficient than 6 hours in a 11 hour day. Old rules: 8 hour scheduled limit in duty period. New rules: 9 hour scheduled limit in duty period. That allows for more efficiency in less duty hours.
Efficiency has gone up. Pilot shortage is helping with that as well.
Under the old rules, you were capped at 30 hours in 7 days. Now you can fly 35-40 hours in 7 days. With the duty limit cap, you do not feel as tired. Old rules: 90 hour duty in 7. New rules: 60 hour duty in 7.
Efficiency has gone up. Pilot shortage is helping with that as well.
Under the old rules, you were capped at 30 hours in 7 days. Now you can fly 35-40 hours in 7 days. With the duty limit cap, you do not feel as tired. Old rules: 90 hour duty in 7. New rules: 60 hour duty in 7.
05-21-2015, 02:30 PM
#6
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Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
The extra two hours of rest and shorter duty day has been a great benefit. We once diverted due to runway conditions during a snow storm and landed at 13 hours of duty. Before 117 we would fueled up and gone to the destination in bad weather and exhausted to make the 16 hours. And we would have had no option because it was company's discretion. Instead we got 10 hours rest and got to ORD safely the next day.
As far as schedules, I think there is so much that goes into building them that it would be hard to say just how much 117 affects pay. I made a lot more last year and feel my trips were way more efficient than years before.
As far as schedules, I think there is so much that goes into building them that it would be hard to say just how much 117 affects pay. I made a lot more last year and feel my trips were way more efficient than years before.
05-21-2015, 02:35 PM
#7
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Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 504
Overall it is better, but pilots are still flying with one eye open when you have to get up at 4 AM and fly 5 legs. Fantastic that the duty day is limited, but they should have limited the legs for those early duty ins. We are still getting up during the circadian low. Honestly, who can be asleep by 8PM when it is still light out and the hotel is still noisy?
05-21-2015, 03:06 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: 145
Posts: 219
Flying 7 hours in a 16 hour day is not more efficient than 6 hours in a 11 hour day. Old rules: 8 hour scheduled limit in duty period. New rules: 9 hour scheduled limit in duty period. That allows for more efficiency in less duty hours.
Efficiency has gone up. Pilot shortage is helping with that as well.
Under the old rules, you were capped at 30 hours in 7 days. Now you can fly 35-40 hours in 7 days. With the duty limit cap, you do not feel as tired. Old rules: 90 hour duty in 7. New rules: 60 hour duty in 7.
Efficiency has gone up. Pilot shortage is helping with that as well.
Under the old rules, you were capped at 30 hours in 7 days. Now you can fly 35-40 hours in 7 days. With the duty limit cap, you do not feel as tired. Old rules: 90 hour duty in 7. New rules: 60 hour duty in 7.
However this Doesn't seem to affect pay as much as days off. They still seem to cram the 80-85 hours of flying per month on our schedules, just now its 12 days off instead of 15-16.
05-21-2015, 03:14 PM
#9
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: 145
Posts: 219
Overall it is better, but pilots are still flying with one eye open when you have to get up at 4 AM and fly 5 legs. Fantastic that the duty day is limited, but they should have limited the legs for those early duty ins. We are still getting up during the circadian low. Honestly, who can be asleep by 8PM when it is still light out and the hotel is still noisy?
However, this is the biggest problem I run into. ESPECIALLY when going forward in time zones. That 4 AM wakeup is really a 3 AM or 2 AM wakeup call if you've flown east from where you've started. Then by day 4 of the trip we are getting in around 11PM or midnight, and its like wait a minute I was waking up at 2 or 3 AM only a couple days ago. I have no idea how to fix this, other than limiting legs for early show times (thus affecting pay and time off even more). Or allowing pilots to take ambien to fall asleep like the military allows...
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