RAA is trying very hard to rescind ATP rule
05-19-2015, 03:11 PM
#72
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05-19-2015, 03:23 PM
#73
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The only reps to object were from regionals (no, I won't name which ones, but you could probably figure it out anyway) who whined that they were having a hard time finding qualified new pilots. The rest of us couldn't believe what we were hearing. The vote record will show it was not a unanimous vote, the no's and abstains were in fact from regionals. The roster of who was on the committee should also be available from ALPA National.
05-19-2015, 06:00 PM
#74
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I was on the ALPA Legislative Affairs Committee Workgroup at the 2014 BOD this past October. I added an agenda item to make defending the 1500 hour rule a legislative priority. My motion was backed by Delta, United and FedEx status reps and we carried the day and it was added.
Outstanding! Please accept my sincere thanks. Hope I can buy you a round or three of your favorite drinks/beers someday.
+1
05-19-2015, 10:24 PM
#75
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Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 58
I was on the ALPA Legislative Affairs Committee Workgroup at the 2014 BOD this past October. I added an agenda item to make defending the 1500 hour rule a legislative priority. My motion was backed by Delta, United and FedEx status reps and we carried the day and it was added.
The only reps to object were from regionals (no, I won't name which ones, but you could probably figure it out anyway) who whined that they were having a hard time finding qualified new pilots. The rest of us couldn't believe what we were hearing. The vote record will show it was not a unanimous vote, the no's and abstains were in fact from regionals. The roster of who was on the committee should also be available from ALPA National.
The only reps to object were from regionals (no, I won't name which ones, but you could probably figure it out anyway) who whined that they were having a hard time finding qualified new pilots. The rest of us couldn't believe what we were hearing. The vote record will show it was not a unanimous vote, the no's and abstains were in fact from regionals. The roster of who was on the committee should also be available from ALPA National.
I think the main difference is in self respect. The RJ captain does not consider himself worthy of having self respect, his airline has the word express at the end. He sees himself as a pilot in training when he is actually a real pilot.
In this topic the regional union rep wants to lower the minimums so his company can hire more pilots, more people will become captains and more will build that special PIC time. They want to help their companies by allowing the company to give bonuses to new hires rather than attracting pilots with a better contract for all. That is rather silly. They are basically telling the company to take 12 to 20k per year from their own families and to give the new hire 10k so the company can add get the pilot.
That is actually doing the opposite. Without the bonuses the RJ pilot pay would double. Not only the 15-20% increase that Republic and Gojet unions are asking for. With the higher pay, pilots will stop going overseas and will start to return. Pilots who are sitting at home rather than going to work for 20,000 a year will go back to flying. The companies will get more pilots, the RJ pilots will get their precious PIC time.
Now, assume I am wrong. The RJ Unions stop the bonuses and the airlines still refuse to pay pilots to fly airplanes, what will happen? Well, pilots at the majors will continue to retire, airlines will continue to grow 3 to 5% a year and the majors will still have to hire from the regionals. Few new pilots will be created because what idiot is going to spend all that money to become a pilot to make 20k a year? (Ok, many of you did it, but assume people are wising up after seeing you living in your parent's basement.) The RJ pilots that are so worried about their companies getting pilots will still end up at the majors because there won't be anyone else! And the majors will have to increase pay to get pilots.
So stop the stupid bonuses that allow the companies to pay the new hire more money than the pilots who are already there. Stop the bonuses that allow the companies to not pay market rate for pilots. Get the money you and your family deserve. Stop starving your kids so that you can chase that stupid carrot. You are a highly trained professional in a profession that is desperate for your craft, have the self respect to demand what you are worth and the self respect not to accept less. Tell the union rep to see the light and demand 100% pay increases for all and not just 10k for the new guy.
05-20-2015, 06:04 AM
#76
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Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 869
The union reps at the regionals are their own worst enemies. They have the power to double their pay rates but they are more concerned with chasing carrots, the chance to get to a major airline. They think there is something magical about flying a 737 compared to an RJ. Having over 5000 hours as a 737 captain, 3000 hours as a 767/757 Captain and 6000 as a 737 Captain, I can say that there is very little difference between flying the big plane and the RJ. The overwater stuff is something additional, and the big plane pilot has more live bodies, but otherwise they each have their own pluses and minuses. In fact while the big plane pilot is flying one or 2 legs a day the RJ pilot may be flying 4, 5, or 6. And the FedX and UPS guys don't mind being paid well.
I think the main difference is in self respect. The RJ captain does not consider himself worthy of having self respect, his airline has the word express at the end. He sees himself as a pilot in training when he is actually a real pilot.
In this topic the regional union rep wants to lower the minimums so his company can hire more pilots, more people will become captains and more will build that special PIC time. They want to help their companies by allowing the company to give bonuses to new hires rather than attracting pilots with a better contract for all. That is rather silly. They are basically telling the company to take 12 to 20k per year from their own families and to give the new hire 10k so the company can add get the pilot.
That is actually doing the opposite. Without the bonuses the RJ pilot pay would double. Not only the 15-20% increase that Republic and Gojet unions are asking for. With the higher pay, pilots will stop going overseas and will start to return. Pilots who are sitting at home rather than going to work for 20,000 a year will go back to flying. The companies will get more pilots, the RJ pilots will get their precious PIC time.
Now, assume I am wrong. The RJ Unions stop the bonuses and the airlines still refuse to pay pilots to fly airplanes, what will happen? Well, pilots at the majors will continue to retire, airlines will continue to grow 3 to 5% a year and the majors will still have to hire from the regionals. Few new pilots will be created because what idiot is going to spend all that money to become a pilot to make 20k a year? (Ok, many of you did it, but assume people are wising up after seeing you living in your parent's basement.) The RJ pilots that are so worried about their companies getting pilots will still end up at the majors because there won't be anyone else! And the majors will have to increase pay to get pilots.
So stop the stupid bonuses that allow the companies to pay the new hire more money than the pilots who are already there. Stop the bonuses that allow the companies to not pay market rate for pilots. Get the money you and your family deserve. Stop starving your kids so that you can chase that stupid carrot. You are a highly trained professional in a profession that is desperate for your craft, have the self respect to demand what you are worth and the self respect not to accept less. Tell the union rep to see the light and demand 100% pay increases for all and not just 10k for the new guy.
I think the main difference is in self respect. The RJ captain does not consider himself worthy of having self respect, his airline has the word express at the end. He sees himself as a pilot in training when he is actually a real pilot.
In this topic the regional union rep wants to lower the minimums so his company can hire more pilots, more people will become captains and more will build that special PIC time. They want to help their companies by allowing the company to give bonuses to new hires rather than attracting pilots with a better contract for all. That is rather silly. They are basically telling the company to take 12 to 20k per year from their own families and to give the new hire 10k so the company can add get the pilot.
That is actually doing the opposite. Without the bonuses the RJ pilot pay would double. Not only the 15-20% increase that Republic and Gojet unions are asking for. With the higher pay, pilots will stop going overseas and will start to return. Pilots who are sitting at home rather than going to work for 20,000 a year will go back to flying. The companies will get more pilots, the RJ pilots will get their precious PIC time.
Now, assume I am wrong. The RJ Unions stop the bonuses and the airlines still refuse to pay pilots to fly airplanes, what will happen? Well, pilots at the majors will continue to retire, airlines will continue to grow 3 to 5% a year and the majors will still have to hire from the regionals. Few new pilots will be created because what idiot is going to spend all that money to become a pilot to make 20k a year? (Ok, many of you did it, but assume people are wising up after seeing you living in your parent's basement.) The RJ pilots that are so worried about their companies getting pilots will still end up at the majors because there won't be anyone else! And the majors will have to increase pay to get pilots.
So stop the stupid bonuses that allow the companies to pay the new hire more money than the pilots who are already there. Stop the bonuses that allow the companies to not pay market rate for pilots. Get the money you and your family deserve. Stop starving your kids so that you can chase that stupid carrot. You are a highly trained professional in a profession that is desperate for your craft, have the self respect to demand what you are worth and the self respect not to accept less. Tell the union rep to see the light and demand 100% pay increases for all and not just 10k for the new guy.
.......
05-20-2015, 06:20 AM
#77
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 17
The union reps at the regionals are their own worst enemies. They have the power to double their pay rates but they are more concerned with chasing carrots, the chance to get to a major airline. They think there is something magical about flying a 737 compared to an RJ. Having over 5000 hours as a 737 captain, 3000 hours as a 767/757 Captain and 6000 as a 737 Captain, I can say that there is very little difference between flying the big plane and the RJ. The overwater stuff is something additional, and the big plane pilot has more live bodies, but otherwise they each have their own pluses and minuses. In fact while the big plane pilot is flying one or 2 legs a day the RJ pilot may be flying 4, 5, or 6. And the FedX and UPS guys don't mind being paid well.
I think the main difference is in self respect. The RJ captain does not consider himself worthy of having self respect, his airline has the word express at the end. He sees himself as a pilot in training when he is actually a real pilot.
In this topic the regional union rep wants to lower the minimums so his company can hire more pilots, more people will become captains and more will build that special PIC time. They want to help their companies by allowing the company to give bonuses to new hires rather than attracting pilots with a better contract for all. That is rather silly. They are basically telling the company to take 12 to 20k per year from their own families and to give the new hire 10k so the company can add get the pilot.
That is actually doing the opposite. Without the bonuses the RJ pilot pay would double. Not only the 15-20% increase that Republic and Gojet unions are asking for. With the higher pay, pilots will stop going overseas and will start to return. Pilots who are sitting at home rather than going to work for 20,000 a year will go back to flying. The companies will get more pilots, the RJ pilots will get their precious PIC time.
Now, assume I am wrong. The RJ Unions stop the bonuses and the airlines still refuse to pay pilots to fly airplanes, what will happen? Well, pilots at the majors will continue to retire, airlines will continue to grow 3 to 5% a year and the majors will still have to hire from the regionals. Few new pilots will be created because what idiot is going to spend all that money to become a pilot to make 20k a year? (Ok, many of you did it, but assume people are wising up after seeing you living in your parent's basement.) The RJ pilots that are so worried about their companies getting pilots will still end up at the majors because there won't be anyone else! And the majors will have to increase pay to get pilots.
So stop the stupid bonuses that allow the companies to pay the new hire more money than the pilots who are already there. Stop the bonuses that allow the companies to not pay market rate for pilots. Get the money you and your family deserve. Stop starving your kids so that you can chase that stupid carrot. You are a highly trained professional in a profession that is desperate for your craft, have the self respect to demand what you are worth and the self respect not to accept less. Tell the union rep to see the light and demand 100% pay increases for all and not just 10k for the new guy.
I think the main difference is in self respect. The RJ captain does not consider himself worthy of having self respect, his airline has the word express at the end. He sees himself as a pilot in training when he is actually a real pilot.
In this topic the regional union rep wants to lower the minimums so his company can hire more pilots, more people will become captains and more will build that special PIC time. They want to help their companies by allowing the company to give bonuses to new hires rather than attracting pilots with a better contract for all. That is rather silly. They are basically telling the company to take 12 to 20k per year from their own families and to give the new hire 10k so the company can add get the pilot.
That is actually doing the opposite. Without the bonuses the RJ pilot pay would double. Not only the 15-20% increase that Republic and Gojet unions are asking for. With the higher pay, pilots will stop going overseas and will start to return. Pilots who are sitting at home rather than going to work for 20,000 a year will go back to flying. The companies will get more pilots, the RJ pilots will get their precious PIC time.
Now, assume I am wrong. The RJ Unions stop the bonuses and the airlines still refuse to pay pilots to fly airplanes, what will happen? Well, pilots at the majors will continue to retire, airlines will continue to grow 3 to 5% a year and the majors will still have to hire from the regionals. Few new pilots will be created because what idiot is going to spend all that money to become a pilot to make 20k a year? (Ok, many of you did it, but assume people are wising up after seeing you living in your parent's basement.) The RJ pilots that are so worried about their companies getting pilots will still end up at the majors because there won't be anyone else! And the majors will have to increase pay to get pilots.
So stop the stupid bonuses that allow the companies to pay the new hire more money than the pilots who are already there. Stop the bonuses that allow the companies to not pay market rate for pilots. Get the money you and your family deserve. Stop starving your kids so that you can chase that stupid carrot. You are a highly trained professional in a profession that is desperate for your craft, have the self respect to demand what you are worth and the self respect not to accept less. Tell the union rep to see the light and demand 100% pay increases for all and not just 10k for the new guy.
05-20-2015, 07:08 AM
#78
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Yesterday's ASA/CMR vs SKYW/CHQ/ACA is today's PSA vs Envoy, et al ad nauseum. There's been some degree of mitigation from sporadic positive pattern bargaining due to the regional staffing crunch (aka the "pilot shortage") but even at its high water mark regionals will always benefit from getting another regional's flying and we're very much seeing that today. Yet there is never going to EVER be one seniority list.
So you're right in that if regional pilot groups stood their ground they would get raises. But they would also price their own model out of existance (good! but good luck getting them to because it only takes a few not willing to do that to ruin it for everyone) and some who stood their ground in the short term would be wiped out and replaced with an existing or new group.
The only real long term solution is to reduce the regional model through mainline pilot scope recapture. Anything else may see occasional gains, but they won't be sustainable by anyone that doesn't own the flying. Its a mainline problem that requires a mainline solution. Wether or not that happens remains to be seen.
05-20-2015, 07:57 AM
#79
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05-20-2015, 07:57 AM
#80
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Position: CFI
Posts: 93
Pilot Shortage Turns to Crisis among Small Cargo Carriers
Pilot Shortage Turns to Crisis among Small Cargo Carriers | Air Transport: Aviation International News
Apparently the purple and brown feeders are feeling the impact as well.
"To stem the flow, Ameriflight raised its pay rates by about 20 percent last November, and another increase took effect recently. A senior Embraer EMB-120 captain now makes $89,000 per year, and a Piper Chieftain pilot $43,000 (up from $28,000)."
Leaving Amflt to go to Mesa will now be a 30-40K pay cut.
Pilot Shortage Turns to Crisis among Small Cargo Carriers | Air Transport: Aviation International News
Apparently the purple and brown feeders are feeling the impact as well.
"To stem the flow, Ameriflight raised its pay rates by about 20 percent last November, and another increase took effect recently. A senior Embraer EMB-120 captain now makes $89,000 per year, and a Piper Chieftain pilot $43,000 (up from $28,000)."
Leaving Amflt to go to Mesa will now be a 30-40K pay cut.
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