RAA is trying very hard to rescind ATP rule
05-02-2015, 05:40 PM
#21
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It is because they believe they can get around paying higher wages if it is lowered. Regionals are throwing every idea against the wall to avoid permanent pay raises. Sooner or later they will get around to permanent pay increases because that is the only way to attract more people to this profession.
05-02-2015, 06:17 PM
#22
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I think we may have reached this point. Word on the street is that Reverend Bedford and RAH will be throwing unheard of money at the F.O.'s in the latest proposal to the I.B.T. to get guys in the door. Take it with a LARGE grain of salt of course but the source is pretty reliable.
05-02-2015, 06:36 PM
#23
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The airlines are probably spending more on training pilots... Because new hires are doing a pic type ride, instead of an sic type, which is practically a joke. But that has nothing to do with how they got their hours.
05-02-2015, 06:40 PM
#24
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Rather than regulation to reduce ATP mins further, why not lift the 9 seat cap on 135 commuter and raise it to like 19 or 25 seats. They could use 2 pilot aircraft/fly under IFR, and hire FO's with commercial/multi creating a "seamless" pipeline from flight school to ATP once again. The 135 carriers could greatly increase capacity.
It's probably not economically feasible to fly these routes with just 9 seats in most cases unless EAS subsidized. The other problem is there are no aircraft in development in this category.
CAPE Air alone cannot produce the FO's the 121 carriers need.
From what I've seen, most graduates aren't taking crop dusting jobs, no, but the part 91 flying has diminished greatly, as evidenced the AOPA president's testimony. Part 135 is mostly single pilot as it stands. So you do have a gap (from 250-700 or so). This I believe does influence career decision making at the very outset.
It's probably not economically feasible to fly these routes with just 9 seats in most cases unless EAS subsidized. The other problem is there are no aircraft in development in this category.
CAPE Air alone cannot produce the FO's the 121 carriers need.
From what I've seen, most graduates aren't taking crop dusting jobs, no, but the part 91 flying has diminished greatly, as evidenced the AOPA president's testimony. Part 135 is mostly single pilot as it stands. So you do have a gap (from 250-700 or so). This I believe does influence career decision making at the very outset.
05-02-2015, 07:32 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
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I know it's a quirk of Euro English that "scheme" is used for "program", but it's really pretty ironic how it "translates" into American English.
In the Euro model, you pay your own way through training (anyone remember the PFT from the 1990s? It's back again!). You then get an MPL which essentially locks you into the carrier you go to work for, OR, you get a CMEL equivalent, do type specific training (self-funded again) and then get "placed" by a staffing company.
In either case, you are locked into the type of aircraft you train....on your own nickel.
Why do they want this here?
1) Training is almost entirely self-funded.
2) The "structural educational requirement", Euro style, practically locks you to your employer for a significant period of time. You gonna rock the boat when if you get let go, you're a low time wannabe who can really only fly FO on a specific type?
Say "buh bye" to any kind of negotiating leverage with that plan.
There are some Euro pilot forums. Check them out and see what you think of how the Euro industry treats their low time guys. It will make CFIing, towing gliders/banners, or pipe line patrol, for a year or two, while getting paid to do it, look like a walk in the park.
Nu
05-02-2015, 07:33 PM
#26
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Just finished watching the video and Black continually tried to stick to the talking points Bedford prepared for her and Sully just blew her out of the water. Particularly in reaction to why regional airlines are still struggling with bonuses. The look on Black's face after Sen Manchin said they were probably going to lean with following the recommendations of the guy with 20,000 hours was hilarious....
Sully Rocks
Sully Rocks
Last edited by FlyingKat; 05-02-2015 at 07:48 PM.
05-02-2015, 07:37 PM
#27
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05-02-2015, 09:54 PM
#28
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Posts: 48
The number of passengers is completely irrelevant, and these rules should apply to EAS carriers as well as 121. "We can put inexperienced pilots on 135 routes, cause they would only kill 15 passengers, not 50"!! (Not saying this would happen, but stated for argument sake...) The basis for these rules is to ensure safety to ALL passengers, not just those fortunate enough to get a flight on a 19 or 25+ seat jet. Raising the 135 cap would be just another way of getting around the current rules, and not actually solving the underlying problem.
121 SICs should have all the experience and capabilities Sully talks about. My question is how will they (in significant numbers) get it ?
Banner and pipeline, and other part 91 is out there but maybe at 30 % of what it needs to be? It think think this is a component of the "underlying issue" .
You can't have people with 50-100k in debt fighting tooth and nail for a couple low paying positions. It leads to pay to play and other cheapening of the profession.
How many 40-55 year old atps are gonna restart their career in flying?
05-02-2015, 10:43 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,189
I think we may have reached this point. Word on the street is that Reverend Bedford and RAH will be throwing unheard of money at the F.O.'s in the latest proposal to the I.B.T. to get guys in the door. Take it with a LARGE grain of salt of course but the source is pretty reliable.
Not to get all religious, but I often wonder what Jesus would think of all the BS this guy (and plenty of other high ranking religious folks) pulls in F'ng over his employees the way he does. Hmm...
05-03-2015, 01:17 AM
#30
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Joined APC: May 2009
Position: pilot
Posts: 584
I think the issue is deeper than inability to get loans or the expenses or even low pay. I really don't think kids want to become pilots anymore. Up to just 10 years ago being an airline pilot was considered cool. Now you are just a driver. I see the change in society, nobody cares anymore. Even the pilots themselves have been beaten down so much the last decade since 911 they just want to collect their paycheck and go home. People take flying for granted and it's not special. Also being a pilot used to be top 10 career choices now it's barely even ranked on most new polls. It was like number 48 out of 50 best jobs on a recent one.
I also find it somewhat ironic that being an AG pilot was brought up as a way for pilots to build time to have a career... I was an active 121/135 pilot for over ten years and left jets for an AG career. Best total compensation I have ever had as a pilot and I actually look forward to going to work. It has been a nice change.
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