The likely story of 9e.
12-05-2014, 01:54 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: Taco Rocket Operator
Posts: 2,485
You guys are hilarious. Delta management saw an opportunity to reduce the cost of their regional lift by buying Endeavor in bankruptcy and forcing their costs close to Gojet. That is why they gave you the threat of caving to concessions or parking airplanes. Your only use to them was in forcing down the cost of all their regional lift. There is a clause in all of Delta's CPAs that allow them to force everyone down to the two lowest rates, and if not then Delta can take away the flying and give it to someone else (Endeavor or Gojet). The inability of Endeavor and Gojet to staff has caused this plan to blow up in their faces. Skywest, Republic, Compass et al all to told Delta to pound sand on rate resets and threatened to move the pilots to other contracts (American) if Delta took away flying. This is why you have seen the panic moves by Endeavor and Delta management to fix the staffing problem and its not working. Now the bonuses to keep people on property till the 717s are up and running and can take up the slack while the 900s are reassigned or Endeavor is sold. One thing about Delta taking over all operations is it makes it easy to reassign aircraft to other regionals.
Endeavor will either be sold or the aircraft reassigned by the end of next year because Delta management has no use for them any more now that this scheme has failed due to the shortage of pilots at regional airlines.
Endeavor will either be sold or the aircraft reassigned by the end of next year because Delta management has no use for them any more now that this scheme has failed due to the shortage of pilots at regional airlines.
12-05-2014, 02:26 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Home with my family playing with my daughter as much as possible
Posts: 591
You guys are hilarious. Delta management saw an opportunity to reduce the cost of their regional lift by buying Endeavor in bankruptcy and forcing their costs close to Gojet. That is why they gave you the threat of caving to concessions or parking airplanes. Your only use to them was in forcing down the cost of all their regional lift. There is a clause in all of Delta's CPAs that allow them to force everyone down to the two lowest rates, and if not then Delta can take away the flying and give it to someone else (Endeavor or Gojet). The inability of Endeavor and Gojet to staff has caused this plan to blow up in their faces. Skywest, Republic, Compass et al all to told Delta to pound sand on rate resets and threatened to move the pilots to other contracts (American) if Delta took away flying. This is why you have seen the panic moves by Endeavor and Delta management to fix the staffing problem and its not working. Now the bonuses to keep people on property till the 717s are up and running and can take up the slack while the 900s are reassigned or Endeavor is sold. One thing about Delta taking over all operations is it makes it easy to reassign aircraft to other regionals.
Endeavor will either be sold or the aircraft reassigned by the end of next year because Delta management has no use for them any more now that this scheme has failed due to the shortage of pilots at regional airlines.
Endeavor will either be sold or the aircraft reassigned by the end of next year because Delta management has no use for them any more now that this scheme has failed due to the shortage of pilots at regional airlines.
Meaning Delta removes flying from them and assigns flying to 9E forcing other junior pilots to come to 9E because of lack of movement or furlough. You see, Delta holds all the cards. I see this scenario likely to play out rather than letting other DCI carriers dictate the price.
12-05-2014, 02:29 PM
#64
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,572
You guys are hilarious. Delta management saw an opportunity to reduce the cost of their regional lift by buying Endeavor in bankruptcy and forcing their costs close to Gojet. That is why they gave you the threat of caving to concessions or parking airplanes. Your only use to them was in forcing down the cost of all their regional lift. There is a clause in all of Delta's CPAs that allow them to force everyone down to the two lowest rates, and if not then Delta can take away the flying and give it to someone else (Endeavor or Gojet). The inability of Endeavor and Gojet to staff has caused this plan to blow up in their faces. Skywest, Republic, Compass et al all to told Delta to pound sand on rate resets and threatened to move the pilots to other contracts (American) if Delta took away flying. This is why you have seen the panic moves by Endeavor and Delta management to fix the staffing problem and its not working. Now the bonuses to keep people on property till the 717s are up and running and can take up the slack while the 900s are reassigned or Endeavor is sold. One thing about Delta taking over all operations is it makes it easy to reassign aircraft to other regionals.
Endeavor will either be sold or the aircraft reassigned by the end of next year because Delta management has no use for them any more now that this scheme has failed due to the shortage of pilots at regional airlines.
Endeavor will either be sold or the aircraft reassigned by the end of next year because Delta management has no use for them any more now that this scheme has failed due to the shortage of pilots at regional airlines.
The other side of the coin remains that the flying of other regionals has NOT been DL flying. The plan for 9E has always been 81 aircraft after DL's financing of Pinnacle (with the known fact of the name change after financing). When the stones are all on the table (all 717's online and 2017 arrives), only 125 50-seaters can exist per delta scope. I highly doubt that would be challenged as DL has publicly stated reducing 50 seaters and the scope for 50 seaters in the DALPA contract is simple and solid. Other carriers are getting older 50 seaters while negotiations at the legacies (outside DL) are mirroring DL language. The 50 seater exists only due to the fall in commodities currently ongoing while the passenger demand is at all time highs. When the 50 seat RJ's are removed from the regional market, in time, the remainder is interesting. 9E operates roughly ⅓ of the DL regional market above 50 seaters. That is covered until 2020.
The rush to other carriers to fly 50 seaters OR fly 50+ seats with the fear of losing 50 seat market share will stop the lateral moves to other regionals. When it comes down to a new hire deciding where to go, the 70-76 numbers matter. Skywest has done a great job of moving up, but they carry a legacy XJET/ASA market filled with 50 seaters. Republic has moved more and more out of 50's to 70-76. Compass looks good for an upgrade IF you are already on property. The mantra post Jan 15 will be to staff an FO seat, with the movement prospect based on top end attrition. In 2Q15, the problem for regionals will be staffing the FO seat to allow upgrades and staff the airframes arriving. With limited entrants into the market, the idea or "attract and retain" will be at the forefront. Those under CPA agreements will have the hardest time as any money beyond the block hour "rate" is out of pocket and into the profit margins. When the economy is good, wholly owned works. When it takes a dump, its an easy write-off. With retirements and an economy actively growing, my personal opinion is that things will be good for those with lots of cash or a "legacy" owner when looking at the airframes above 70 seats. 50+ seat jets will only exist while things are good and movement is a guarantee. Without an attrition agreement in place (flow/preferential) things will get ugly. Especially with scope being a forefront for everyone in negotiations chasing DL's scope agreement. Just my opinion.
12-05-2014, 04:43 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
You seem to possess some intelligence in your post, and I commend you on that assumption.
The other side of the coin remains that the flying of other regionals has NOT been DL flying. The plan for 9E has always been 81 aircraft after DL's financing of Pinnacle (with the known fact of the name change after financing). When the stones are all on the table (all 717's online and 2017 arrives), only 125 50-seaters can exist per delta scope. I highly doubt that would be challenged as DL has publicly stated reducing 50 seaters and the scope for 50 seaters in the DALPA contract is simple and solid. Other carriers are getting older 50 seaters while negotiations at the legacies (outside DL) are mirroring DL language. The 50 seater exists only due to the fall in commodities currently ongoing while the passenger demand is at all time highs. When the 50 seat RJ's are removed from the regional market, in time, the remainder is interesting. 9E operates roughly ⅓ of the DL regional market above 50 seaters. That is covered until 2020.
The rush to other carriers to fly 50 seaters OR fly 50+ seats with the fear of losing 50 seat market share will stop the lateral moves to other regionals. When it comes down to a new hire deciding where to go, the 70-76 numbers matter. Skywest has done a great job of moving up, but they carry a legacy XJET/ASA market filled with 50 seaters. Republic has moved more and more out of 50's to 70-76. Compass looks good for an upgrade IF you are already on property. The mantra post Jan 15 will be to staff an FO seat, with the movement prospect based on top end attrition. In 2Q15, the problem for regionals will be staffing the FO seat to allow upgrades and staff the airframes arriving. With limited entrants into the market, the idea or "attract and retain" will be at the forefront. Those under CPA agreements will have the hardest time as any money beyond the block hour "rate" is out of pocket and into the profit margins. When the economy is good, wholly owned works. When it takes a dump, its an easy write-off. With retirements and an economy actively growing, my personal opinion is that things will be good for those with lots of cash or a "legacy" owner when looking at the airframes above 70 seats. 50+ seat jets will only exist while things are good and movement is a guarantee. Without an attrition agreement in place (flow/preferential) things will get ugly. Especially with scope being a forefront for everyone in negotiations chasing DL's scope agreement. Just my opinion.
The other side of the coin remains that the flying of other regionals has NOT been DL flying. The plan for 9E has always been 81 aircraft after DL's financing of Pinnacle (with the known fact of the name change after financing). When the stones are all on the table (all 717's online and 2017 arrives), only 125 50-seaters can exist per delta scope. I highly doubt that would be challenged as DL has publicly stated reducing 50 seaters and the scope for 50 seaters in the DALPA contract is simple and solid. Other carriers are getting older 50 seaters while negotiations at the legacies (outside DL) are mirroring DL language. The 50 seater exists only due to the fall in commodities currently ongoing while the passenger demand is at all time highs. When the 50 seat RJ's are removed from the regional market, in time, the remainder is interesting. 9E operates roughly ⅓ of the DL regional market above 50 seaters. That is covered until 2020.
The rush to other carriers to fly 50 seaters OR fly 50+ seats with the fear of losing 50 seat market share will stop the lateral moves to other regionals. When it comes down to a new hire deciding where to go, the 70-76 numbers matter. Skywest has done a great job of moving up, but they carry a legacy XJET/ASA market filled with 50 seaters. Republic has moved more and more out of 50's to 70-76. Compass looks good for an upgrade IF you are already on property. The mantra post Jan 15 will be to staff an FO seat, with the movement prospect based on top end attrition. In 2Q15, the problem for regionals will be staffing the FO seat to allow upgrades and staff the airframes arriving. With limited entrants into the market, the idea or "attract and retain" will be at the forefront. Those under CPA agreements will have the hardest time as any money beyond the block hour "rate" is out of pocket and into the profit margins. When the economy is good, wholly owned works. When it takes a dump, its an easy write-off. With retirements and an economy actively growing, my personal opinion is that things will be good for those with lots of cash or a "legacy" owner when looking at the airframes above 70 seats. 50+ seat jets will only exist while things are good and movement is a guarantee. Without an attrition agreement in place (flow/preferential) things will get ugly. Especially with scope being a forefront for everyone in negotiations chasing DL's scope agreement. Just my opinion.
12-05-2014, 04:54 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 504
You seem to possess some intelligence in your post, and I commend you on that assumption.
The other side of the coin remains that the flying of other regionals has NOT been DL flying. The plan for 9E has always been 81 aircraft after DL's financing of Pinnacle (with the known fact of the name change after financing). When the stones are all on the table (all 717's online and 2017 arrives), only 125 50-seaters can exist per delta scope. I highly doubt that would be challenged as DL has publicly stated reducing 50 seaters and the scope for 50 seaters in the DALPA contract is simple and solid. Other carriers are getting older 50 seaters while negotiations at the legacies (outside DL) are mirroring DL language. The 50 seater exists only due to the fall in commodities currently ongoing while the passenger demand is at all time highs. When the 50 seat RJ's are removed from the regional market, in time, the remainder is interesting. 9E operates roughly ⅓ of the DL regional market above 50 seaters. That is covered until 2020.
The rush to other carriers to fly 50 seaters OR fly 50+ seats with the fear of losing 50 seat market share will stop the lateral moves to other regionals. When it comes down to a new hire deciding where to go, the 70-76 numbers matter. Skywest has done a great job of moving up, but they carry a legacy XJET/ASA market filled with 50 seaters. Republic has moved more and more out of 50's to 70-76. Compass looks good for an upgrade IF you are already on property. The mantra post Jan 15 will be to staff an FO seat, with the movement prospect based on top end attrition. In 2Q15, the problem for regionals will be staffing the FO seat to allow upgrades and staff the airframes arriving. With limited entrants into the market, the idea or "attract and retain" will be at the forefront. Those under CPA agreements will have the hardest time as any money beyond the block hour "rate" is out of pocket and into the profit margins. When the economy is good, wholly owned works. When it takes a dump, its an easy write-off. With retirements and an economy actively growing, my personal opinion is that things will be good for those with lots of cash or a "legacy" owner when looking at the airframes above 70 seats. 50+ seat jets will only exist while things are good and movement is a guarantee. Without an attrition agreement in place (flow/preferential) things will get ugly. Especially with scope being a forefront for everyone in negotiations chasing DL's scope agreement. Just my opinion.
The other side of the coin remains that the flying of other regionals has NOT been DL flying. The plan for 9E has always been 81 aircraft after DL's financing of Pinnacle (with the known fact of the name change after financing). When the stones are all on the table (all 717's online and 2017 arrives), only 125 50-seaters can exist per delta scope. I highly doubt that would be challenged as DL has publicly stated reducing 50 seaters and the scope for 50 seaters in the DALPA contract is simple and solid. Other carriers are getting older 50 seaters while negotiations at the legacies (outside DL) are mirroring DL language. The 50 seater exists only due to the fall in commodities currently ongoing while the passenger demand is at all time highs. When the 50 seat RJ's are removed from the regional market, in time, the remainder is interesting. 9E operates roughly ⅓ of the DL regional market above 50 seaters. That is covered until 2020.
The rush to other carriers to fly 50 seaters OR fly 50+ seats with the fear of losing 50 seat market share will stop the lateral moves to other regionals. When it comes down to a new hire deciding where to go, the 70-76 numbers matter. Skywest has done a great job of moving up, but they carry a legacy XJET/ASA market filled with 50 seaters. Republic has moved more and more out of 50's to 70-76. Compass looks good for an upgrade IF you are already on property. The mantra post Jan 15 will be to staff an FO seat, with the movement prospect based on top end attrition. In 2Q15, the problem for regionals will be staffing the FO seat to allow upgrades and staff the airframes arriving. With limited entrants into the market, the idea or "attract and retain" will be at the forefront. Those under CPA agreements will have the hardest time as any money beyond the block hour "rate" is out of pocket and into the profit margins. When the economy is good, wholly owned works. When it takes a dump, its an easy write-off. With retirements and an economy actively growing, my personal opinion is that things will be good for those with lots of cash or a "legacy" owner when looking at the airframes above 70 seats. 50+ seat jets will only exist while things are good and movement is a guarantee. Without an attrition agreement in place (flow/preferential) things will get ugly. Especially with scope being a forefront for everyone in negotiations chasing DL's scope agreement. Just my opinion.
I just find it funny how for YEARS I have heard about the 50 seater demise. Yet there are still turboprops out there also.
12-05-2014, 05:33 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,914
A little surprised at some of the posts. It's like standing on railroad tracks at the end of a tunnel and there's a bright white light in the distance. Some will say it could be the moon. The moon can cast a bright white light depending on the phase and angle relative to the Earth's horizon. Or it could be a really bright flashlight. Someone could be walking there with a commercial grade large white flashlight. Or it could be a maintenance light. Tunnels have white lights for maintenance personnel and it likely could be it. Or it could be a bright flare left by someone and that is the bright white light.
All of these neglect the most obvious (but somehow oblivious) that the bright white light is from a Streamliner locomotive named 'the Delta Express' coming full speed ahead and the brakes have failed long ago. Those who have moved off the tracks are not chiding you but trying to advise that jumping from the current track is still the best course of action and it's not worth staying on it.
All of these neglect the most obvious (but somehow oblivious) that the bright white light is from a Streamliner locomotive named 'the Delta Express' coming full speed ahead and the brakes have failed long ago. Those who have moved off the tracks are not chiding you but trying to advise that jumping from the current track is still the best course of action and it's not worth staying on it.
12-05-2014, 05:51 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
A little surprised at some of the posts. It's like standing on railroad tracks at the end of a tunnel and there's a bright white light in the distance. Some will say it could be the moon. The moon can cast a bright white light depending on the phase and angle relative to the Earth's horizon. Or it could be a really bright flashlight. Someone could be walking there with a commercial grade large white flashlight. Or it could be a maintenance light. Tunnels have white lights for maintenance personnel and it likely could be it. Or it could be a bright flare left by someone and that is the bright white light.
All of these neglect the most obvious (but somehow oblivious) that the bright white light is from a Streamliner locomotive named 'the Delta Express' coming full speed ahead and the brakes have failed long ago. Those who have moved off the tracks are not chiding you but trying to advise that jumping from the current track is still the best course of action and it's not worth staying on it.
All of these neglect the most obvious (but somehow oblivious) that the bright white light is from a Streamliner locomotive named 'the Delta Express' coming full speed ahead and the brakes have failed long ago. Those who have moved off the tracks are not chiding you but trying to advise that jumping from the current track is still the best course of action and it's not worth staying on it.
12-05-2014, 05:54 PM
#69
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,572
Shy, repeating yourself with new analogies doesn't bring any new facts. It also doesn't change your vantage point as an ex-9e person. Your opinion is known and has obviously followed you in your endeavors. Glad you found a better fit, but why you still take the time to talk about your past employer and obvious negative views does nothing positive for your image, nor does it seem to keep you content with watching what will unfold that is unbenounced to you or anyone else posting within the thread. Gotta love a free country.
12-05-2014, 05:57 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 389
A little surprised at some of the posts. It's like standing on railroad tracks at the end of a tunnel and there's a bright white light in the distance. Some will say it could be the moon. The moon can cast a bright white light depending on the phase and angle relative to the Earth's horizon. Or it could be a really bright flashlight. Someone could be walking there with a commercial grade large white flashlight. Or it could be a maintenance light. Tunnels have white lights for maintenance personnel and it likely could be it. Or it could be a bright flare left by someone and that is the bright white light.
All of these neglect the most obvious (but somehow oblivious) that the bright white light is from a Streamliner locomotive named 'the Delta Express' coming full speed ahead and the brakes have failed long ago. Those who have moved off the tracks are not chiding you but trying to advise that jumping from the current track is still the best course of action and it's not worth staying on it.
All of these neglect the most obvious (but somehow oblivious) that the bright white light is from a Streamliner locomotive named 'the Delta Express' coming full speed ahead and the brakes have failed long ago. Those who have moved off the tracks are not chiding you but trying to advise that jumping from the current track is still the best course of action and it's not worth staying on it.
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