The likely story of 9e.
12-05-2014, 09:24 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: Delta chihuahua Capt.
Posts: 462
Some of you guys are unbelievable... That is complete horse sh1t. Whomever told you that either didn't hack it in the interview and is just saying that to put the blame on the process, or is either just trying to stir stuff up.
12-05-2014, 09:26 AM
#42
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 6 Train - Panhandler
Posts: 2,001
Last vacancy, there were 0 downgrades. OP is right. Most posting on here are ex-employees hoping for demise. Truth of the matter, every regional is shrinking to some degree. 9E is no different. Everyone is so scared that Delta owns 9E...get over it! Comair got shutdown...yeah but that is 1 out of how many companies Delta owns. Don't know what companies Delta owns? Here a quick list:
Aero Assurance Ltd.
Cardinal Insurance Company (Cayman) Ltd.
Crown Rooms, Inc.
DAL Global Services, LLC
DAL Moscow, Inc.
Delta Air Lines, Inc. and Pan American World Airways,Inc.—Unterstutzungskasse GMBH
Delta Air Lines Dublin Limited
Delta Air Lines Private Limited
Delta Benefits Management, Inc.
Delta Loyalty Management Services, LLC
Delta Private Jets, Inc.
Endeavor Air
Epsilon Trading, LLC
Kappa Capital Management, LLC
MLT Inc.
Montana Enterprises, Inc.
New Sky, Ltd.
Northwest Aerospace Training Corporation
Regional Elite Airline Services, LLC
Segrave Aviation, Inc.
Tomisato Shoji Kabushiki Kaisha
Highly doubt that Endeavor Air is an experiment. Choosing an regional to start your career is a tricky one. How many pilots have chased a fast upgrade and got burned? MANY!
Endeavor in the future will have steady upgrades once this place gets churning. Last vacancy ZERO downgrades...there is already a turn around. Those are the FACTS.
Delta is about controlling cost. Just as Delta bought an oil refinery in 2012 to control the "crack spread" for jet fuel. This has already resulted in millions in savings. Endeavor is the same. Controlling cost but at the same time branding. All the companies that Delta owns is about controlling cost. Endeavor is no different. Endeavor is an asset to Delta...not something they will throw away.
The emerging from bankruptcy and the purchase of 9E was in 2013. People are impatient. It hasn't been two years yet. The original plan has always been 81 aircraft which is still decent lift if you compare to all other regionals. The last 900 will be received in Feb giving us 81 plus some 200's on deck throughout 2015. AWAC's deal fell through so it looks like there will be more 200's than expected.
Point being, if you wait for things to be "good" at a regional searching for fast upgrades...if that is happening...chances are you are TOO LATE TO THE PARTY. The ones that were there before you will get the upgrades and chances are things will slow down before you get too upgrade.
2015 is a turn around year at Endeavor (2 years after BK):
- All 900's on deck
- Zero downgrades to start the year
- Managed attrition to Delta - 144 per year
- Attrition from top to other airlines that are hiring in 2015 and beyond.
- Pilot contract amendable 2017 which is at the end of bonus.
- 30k bonus for the next two years making starting salary for FO's decent.
Starting next year, you could realistically say there will be 300-400 off the top going to other airlines. That means upgrades end of 2015 and beyond.
9E is NOT a doom and gloom story once you see all the facts. It's a place to start your career and move on to other things while delivering a good branded Delta product. If you wait until things are "good" here at 9E, you are too late. Stop listening to the naysayers and ex-employees that NEVER seem to list all the facts.
Aero Assurance Ltd.
Cardinal Insurance Company (Cayman) Ltd.
Crown Rooms, Inc.
DAL Global Services, LLC
DAL Moscow, Inc.
Delta Air Lines, Inc. and Pan American World Airways,Inc.—Unterstutzungskasse GMBH
Delta Air Lines Dublin Limited
Delta Air Lines Private Limited
Delta Benefits Management, Inc.
Delta Loyalty Management Services, LLC
Delta Private Jets, Inc.
Endeavor Air
Epsilon Trading, LLC
Kappa Capital Management, LLC
MLT Inc.
Montana Enterprises, Inc.
New Sky, Ltd.
Northwest Aerospace Training Corporation
Regional Elite Airline Services, LLC
Segrave Aviation, Inc.
Tomisato Shoji Kabushiki Kaisha
Highly doubt that Endeavor Air is an experiment. Choosing an regional to start your career is a tricky one. How many pilots have chased a fast upgrade and got burned? MANY!
Endeavor in the future will have steady upgrades once this place gets churning. Last vacancy ZERO downgrades...there is already a turn around. Those are the FACTS.
Delta is about controlling cost. Just as Delta bought an oil refinery in 2012 to control the "crack spread" for jet fuel. This has already resulted in millions in savings. Endeavor is the same. Controlling cost but at the same time branding. All the companies that Delta owns is about controlling cost. Endeavor is no different. Endeavor is an asset to Delta...not something they will throw away.
The emerging from bankruptcy and the purchase of 9E was in 2013. People are impatient. It hasn't been two years yet. The original plan has always been 81 aircraft which is still decent lift if you compare to all other regionals. The last 900 will be received in Feb giving us 81 plus some 200's on deck throughout 2015. AWAC's deal fell through so it looks like there will be more 200's than expected.
Point being, if you wait for things to be "good" at a regional searching for fast upgrades...if that is happening...chances are you are TOO LATE TO THE PARTY. The ones that were there before you will get the upgrades and chances are things will slow down before you get too upgrade.
2015 is a turn around year at Endeavor (2 years after BK):
- All 900's on deck
- Zero downgrades to start the year
- Managed attrition to Delta - 144 per year
- Attrition from top to other airlines that are hiring in 2015 and beyond.
- Pilot contract amendable 2017 which is at the end of bonus.
- 30k bonus for the next two years making starting salary for FO's decent.
Starting next year, you could realistically say there will be 300-400 off the top going to other airlines. That means upgrades end of 2015 and beyond.
9E is NOT a doom and gloom story once you see all the facts. It's a place to start your career and move on to other things while delivering a good branded Delta product. If you wait until things are "good" here at 9E, you are too late. Stop listening to the naysayers and ex-employees that NEVER seem to list all the facts.
There is numerical facts and solid logic in this posts. It's not a foregone conclusion that the majority of us (pilot generalization) complain about circumstances. Much of it is warranted. But I submit my concurrence when I say that he is right. If you recruit 100 FOs, you make $200,000 dollars. There's another number.
12-05-2014, 10:02 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: On The Jumpseat
Posts: 248
12-05-2014, 11:28 AM
#46
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,572
The problem is folks "think" they should be in spot B, while in spot A. Those who left look back and mentally only want their past to crumble. It's a psychological mind game. Those who say "I wish 9E the best" after leaving portray Pseudo-certainty effect to the definition. Looking back, any change in thought is deemed a rational thought if the outcome can be better than present day, with reinforcement if the thought proves true on even on a limited level. Furthermore, many here are entertaining the ambiguity effect and gambler's fallacy to say that the past WILL BE the future by repeating it with support of others, coupled by a limited basis of past truth, regardless of past circumstances.
But, that's none of my business. It seems those who were the most negative have left, known as negativity bias, and the joy of that conundrum is the fact that those with a bias tend to employ Semmelweis reflex to make sure their thoughts and feelings are provided as the truth.
The mind is a fun playpen, especially with anonymity of a message board.
Endeavor will be fine if DL shows they want the airline to work. It has been repeatedly said by everyone, sans ALPA, that 81 -900's is the plan. The difference was that the shedding of -200's was planned to be via SSP and Major/LCC movement from CA's, not the fleeing of FO's to regionals. We shall see if the latest changes yield positive results.
But, that's none of my business. It seems those who were the most negative have left, known as negativity bias, and the joy of that conundrum is the fact that those with a bias tend to employ Semmelweis reflex to make sure their thoughts and feelings are provided as the truth.
The mind is a fun playpen, especially with anonymity of a message board.
Endeavor will be fine if DL shows they want the airline to work. It has been repeatedly said by everyone, sans ALPA, that 81 -900's is the plan. The difference was that the shedding of -200's was planned to be via SSP and Major/LCC movement from CA's, not the fleeing of FO's to regionals. We shall see if the latest changes yield positive results.
12-05-2014, 11:51 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,301
There is numerical facts and solid logic in this posts. It's not a foregone conclusion that the majority of us (pilot generalization) complain about circumstances. Much of it is warranted. But I submit my concurrence when I say that he is right. If you recruit 100 FOs, you make $200,000 dollars. There's another number.
Using a recruiting bonus to supplement your income is grasping at strays. Please tell me that you have something more than this. Please tell me you are not pinning your hopes to a recruiting bonus.
12-05-2014, 12:01 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 389
Here is an opinion if you get hired at 9e today in the next two years you will make more money than other places barring upgrade. In two years the hiring environment at the majors will be even more aggressive since they will be on to tier 3 candidates which will include first officers. Everyone has seen the projections with retirements the majors will be hiring over the next 10 years and it will be steady. Some years will be stronger than others but it will be steady. If you are in a position to get an off the street captain position at another regional best of luck. This is a tenuous position given the rapid changes going on in the regional industry. If you are new to the industry go for QOL and pay. If you live in the Midwest or Northeast 9e is a good option and the future at 9e is looking up. If you come before January 1st by October you will have made an extra 15 k. During this time you will see the evolution of Endeavor and I am guessing you will stick around. Fact is 9e has the best FO pay in the industry through 2016.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
