The likely story of 9e.
12-07-2014, 03:07 PM
#101
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,572
Grammar Police UNITE!
In the end, the Bloch ruling only adds salt in the wound for some, a wind in the sail for others, and a PITA factor for the company. Most of the legacy 9L (Colgan) guys are either CA's or gone, and those remaining on the XJ list are well aware of movement on the -900. By watching resignations the 9E folks are choosing to either bail or watch. The SSP list is down in the -200 CA numbers, but without new hires that is a wash. If new hires show up, and upgrades start (144 to start), I think the idea of movement and "doom and gloom" change. DL just dropped a "costed" $30M in bonuses into the operation and the FO SSP discussion starts tomorrow.
Many are in a fuss about the SSP/ETD and the difference in movement numbers. I COMPLETELY understand the frustration of those with a CJO and being held here. No challenge there, yet it is allowed per the bridge agreement as it is a YEARLY number. I won't dwell on that, let's keep the big picture in mind. The SSP interviews are at the last 80ish on the CA list, many are new CA'S waiting on the first interview. There are a slew of CA's who are either on round 2 or now entertaining round 1 for the interview. Without a change, the 144/300ish number still bottoms out the list quickly without a change to the SSP interview process. If FO's get a legit shake at the interview (as in a guaranteed face time interview), this helps things. Most here on the FO side feel they are being held AWAY from DL with the current process. The interview numbers have come up and it at least allows 2 bites at the apple. Like all of the changes that have happened in the last 12-18 months, it's better than where we are now. As far as new hires, well.. if movement is happening in the list, and more new hires arrive to allow for continued movement things will be fine. Additionally, the list has gone into the -200 CA list, which means with new hires upgrades will happen and benefit the pre-merger 9E folks who feel the door was slammed in their face. Time will tell, but I don't see anything currently happening as a negative. The SSP for FO language should hold the keys to sway that decision on a personal level. It happens tomorrow.
12-07-2014, 05:24 PM
#102
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: B-767 FO
Posts: 554
Please look at this, thank you. 10 Words You Need to Stop Misspelling - The Oatmeal
12-07-2014, 05:41 PM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 843
That is the unfortunate side effect.....
Grammar Police UNITE!
In the end, the Bloch ruling only adds salt in the wound for some, a wind in the sail for others, and a PITA factor for the company. Most of the legacy 9L (Colgan) guys are either CA's or gone, and those remaining on the XJ list are well aware of movement on the -900. By watching resignations the 9E folks are choosing to either bail or watch. The SSP list is down in the -200 CA numbers, but without new hires that is a wash. If new hires show up, and upgrades start (144 to start), I think the idea of movement and "doom and gloom" change. DL just dropped a "costed" $30M in bonuses into the operation and the FO SSP discussion starts tomorrow.
Many are in a fuss about the SSP/ETD and the difference in movement numbers. I COMPLETELY understand the frustration of those with a CJO and being held here. No challenge there, yet it is allowed per the bridge agreement as it is a YEARLY number. I won't dwell on that, let's keep the big picture in mind. The SSP interviews are at the last 80ish on the CA list, many are new CA'S waiting on the first interview. There are a slew of CA's who are either on round 2 or now entertaining round 1 for the interview. Without a change, the 144/300ish number still bottoms out the list quickly without a change to the SSP interview process. If FO's get a legit shake at the interview (as in a guaranteed face time interview), this helps things. Most here on the FO side feel they are being held AWAY from DL with the current process. The interview numbers have come up and it at least allows 2 bites at the apple. Like all of the changes that have happened in the last 12-18 months, it's better than where we are now. As far as new hires, well.. if movement is happening in the list, and more new hires arrive to allow for continued movement things will be fine. Additionally, the list has gone into the -200 CA list, which means with new hires upgrades will happen and benefit the pre-merger 9E folks who feel the door was slammed in their face. Time will tell, but I don't see anything currently happening as a negative. The SSP for FO language should hold the keys to sway that decision on a personal level. It happens tomorrow.
Grammar Police UNITE!
In the end, the Bloch ruling only adds salt in the wound for some, a wind in the sail for others, and a PITA factor for the company. Most of the legacy 9L (Colgan) guys are either CA's or gone, and those remaining on the XJ list are well aware of movement on the -900. By watching resignations the 9E folks are choosing to either bail or watch. The SSP list is down in the -200 CA numbers, but without new hires that is a wash. If new hires show up, and upgrades start (144 to start), I think the idea of movement and "doom and gloom" change. DL just dropped a "costed" $30M in bonuses into the operation and the FO SSP discussion starts tomorrow.
Many are in a fuss about the SSP/ETD and the difference in movement numbers. I COMPLETELY understand the frustration of those with a CJO and being held here. No challenge there, yet it is allowed per the bridge agreement as it is a YEARLY number. I won't dwell on that, let's keep the big picture in mind. The SSP interviews are at the last 80ish on the CA list, many are new CA'S waiting on the first interview. There are a slew of CA's who are either on round 2 or now entertaining round 1 for the interview. Without a change, the 144/300ish number still bottoms out the list quickly without a change to the SSP interview process. If FO's get a legit shake at the interview (as in a guaranteed face time interview), this helps things. Most here on the FO side feel they are being held AWAY from DL with the current process. The interview numbers have come up and it at least allows 2 bites at the apple. Like all of the changes that have happened in the last 12-18 months, it's better than where we are now. As far as new hires, well.. if movement is happening in the list, and more new hires arrive to allow for continued movement things will be fine. Additionally, the list has gone into the -200 CA list, which means with new hires upgrades will happen and benefit the pre-merger 9E folks who feel the door was slammed in their face. Time will tell, but I don't see anything currently happening as a negative. The SSP for FO language should hold the keys to sway that decision on a personal level. It happens tomorrow.
12-07-2014, 06:11 PM
#104
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 14
That is the unfortunate side effect.....
Grammar Police UNITE!
In the end, the Bloch ruling only adds salt in the wound for some, a wind in the sail for others, and a PITA factor for the company. Most of the legacy 9L (Colgan) guys are either CA's or gone, and those remaining on the XJ list are well aware of movement on the -900. By watching resignations the 9E folks are choosing to either bail or watch. The SSP list is down in the -200 CA numbers, but without new hires that is a wash. If new hires show up, and upgrades start (144 to start), I think the idea of movement and "doom and gloom" change. DL just dropped a "costed" $30M in bonuses into the operation and the FO SSP discussion starts tomorrow.
Many are in a fuss about the SSP/ETD and the difference in movement numbers. I COMPLETELY understand the frustration of those with a CJO and being held here. No challenge there, yet it is allowed per the bridge agreement as it is a YEARLY number. I won't dwell on that, let's keep the big picture in mind. The SSP interviews are at the last 80ish on the CA list, many are new CA'S waiting on the first interview. There are a slew of CA's who are either on round 2 or now entertaining round 1 for the interview. Without a change, the 144/300ish number still bottoms out the list quickly without a change to the SSP interview process. If FO's get a legit shake at the interview (as in a guaranteed face time interview), this helps things. Most here on the FO side feel they are being held AWAY from DL with the current process. The interview numbers have come up and it at least allows 2 bites at the apple. Like all of the changes that have happened in the last 12-18 months, it's better than where we are now. As far as new hires, well.. if movement is happening in the list, and more new hires arrive to allow for continued movement things will be fine. Additionally, the list has gone into the -200 CA list, which means with new hires upgrades will happen and benefit the pre-merger 9E folks who feel the door was slammed in their face. Time will tell, but I don't see anything currently happening as a negative. The SSP for FO language should hold the keys to sway that decision on a personal level. It happens tomorrow.
Grammar Police UNITE!
In the end, the Bloch ruling only adds salt in the wound for some, a wind in the sail for others, and a PITA factor for the company. Most of the legacy 9L (Colgan) guys are either CA's or gone, and those remaining on the XJ list are well aware of movement on the -900. By watching resignations the 9E folks are choosing to either bail or watch. The SSP list is down in the -200 CA numbers, but without new hires that is a wash. If new hires show up, and upgrades start (144 to start), I think the idea of movement and "doom and gloom" change. DL just dropped a "costed" $30M in bonuses into the operation and the FO SSP discussion starts tomorrow.
Many are in a fuss about the SSP/ETD and the difference in movement numbers. I COMPLETELY understand the frustration of those with a CJO and being held here. No challenge there, yet it is allowed per the bridge agreement as it is a YEARLY number. I won't dwell on that, let's keep the big picture in mind. The SSP interviews are at the last 80ish on the CA list, many are new CA'S waiting on the first interview. There are a slew of CA's who are either on round 2 or now entertaining round 1 for the interview. Without a change, the 144/300ish number still bottoms out the list quickly without a change to the SSP interview process. If FO's get a legit shake at the interview (as in a guaranteed face time interview), this helps things. Most here on the FO side feel they are being held AWAY from DL with the current process. The interview numbers have come up and it at least allows 2 bites at the apple. Like all of the changes that have happened in the last 12-18 months, it's better than where we are now. As far as new hires, well.. if movement is happening in the list, and more new hires arrive to allow for continued movement things will be fine. Additionally, the list has gone into the -200 CA list, which means with new hires upgrades will happen and benefit the pre-merger 9E folks who feel the door was slammed in their face. Time will tell, but I don't see anything currently happening as a negative. The SSP for FO language should hold the keys to sway that decision on a personal level. It happens tomorrow.
12-07-2014, 08:37 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 910
After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that the two camps are divided over the same thing: Speculation.
The cheerleaders who are claiming Endeavor is a "sure thing for new hires" are making guesses based on reading the tea leaves and interpreting a brighter future.
The naysayers read those tea leaves and see stagnation and the inevitable failure of the airline.
Who's right? Hard to say. The wise thing would be to look at past performance under similar situations. I recall similar soothing remarks during integration. I also recall similar platitudes during bankruptcy. None of those predictions came true. While it has never been a dire situation at Endeavor, it sure wasn't a productive 3 years.
I offer this: How long can a person wait for the turnaround? 1 year? 3 years? 10 years? Your whole career? These might be different for every person. But if history is an indicator, those who choose to stay might be waiting a long time.
The cheerleaders who are claiming Endeavor is a "sure thing for new hires" are making guesses based on reading the tea leaves and interpreting a brighter future.
The naysayers read those tea leaves and see stagnation and the inevitable failure of the airline.
Who's right? Hard to say. The wise thing would be to look at past performance under similar situations. I recall similar soothing remarks during integration. I also recall similar platitudes during bankruptcy. None of those predictions came true. While it has never been a dire situation at Endeavor, it sure wasn't a productive 3 years.
I offer this: How long can a person wait for the turnaround? 1 year? 3 years? 10 years? Your whole career? These might be different for every person. But if history is an indicator, those who choose to stay might be waiting a long time.
12-07-2014, 08:45 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 320
Posts: 709
After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that the two camps are divided over the same thing: Speculation.
The cheerleaders who are claiming Endeavor is a "sure thing for new hires" are making guesses based on reading the tea leaves and interpreting a brighter future.
The naysayers read those tea leaves and see stagnation and the inevitable failure of the airline.
Who's right? Hard to say. The wise thing would be to look at past performance under similar situations. I recall similar soothing remarks during integration. I also recall similar platitudes during bankruptcy. None of those predictions came true. While it has never been a dire situation at Endeavor, it sure wasn't a productive 3 years.
I offer this: How long can a person wait for the turnaround? 1 year? 3 years? 10 years? Your whole career? These might be different for every person. But if history is an indicator, those who choose to stay might be waiting a long time.
The cheerleaders who are claiming Endeavor is a "sure thing for new hires" are making guesses based on reading the tea leaves and interpreting a brighter future.
The naysayers read those tea leaves and see stagnation and the inevitable failure of the airline.
Who's right? Hard to say. The wise thing would be to look at past performance under similar situations. I recall similar soothing remarks during integration. I also recall similar platitudes during bankruptcy. None of those predictions came true. While it has never been a dire situation at Endeavor, it sure wasn't a productive 3 years.
I offer this: How long can a person wait for the turnaround? 1 year? 3 years? 10 years? Your whole career? These might be different for every person. But if history is an indicator, those who choose to stay might be waiting a long time.
12-07-2014, 08:57 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 910
Well, all we can do is speculate because most of us do not own a working crystal ball. You say a turnaround could take ages by looking at past performance but you can also look at past performance and say it could happen almost instantly. XJ went from furloughing to street captains within months. So it could go either way. People have to choose which path they believe is more likely and make their decision based on that. Then hope that it all works out.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the only way 9E picks up flying is at the expense of other DCI carriers who aren't renewed. It's a hail mary at best.
12-07-2014, 09:12 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 310
Delta is scoped out on 76 seaters. There are no more airplanes coming. The Northwest order of 36 900s is what caused the XJ hiring boom of 2007.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the only way 9E picks up flying is at the expense of other DCI carriers who aren't renewed. It's a hail mary at best.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the only way 9E picks up flying is at the expense of other DCI carriers who aren't renewed. It's a hail mary at best.
This whole hardline stance people reference to have just 125 50 seaters is irrelevant if Delta doesn't place those additional 30 900s. I don't remember the exact ratio but Delta has the ability to fly over 125 50 seaters for the time being.
12-08-2014, 04:13 AM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: MSP CA
Posts: 353
That is the unfortunate side effect.....
Grammar Police UNITE!
In the end, the Bloch ruling only adds salt in the wound for some, a wind in the sail for others, and a PITA factor for the company. Most of the legacy 9L (Colgan) guys are either CA's or gone, and those remaining on the XJ list are well aware of movement on the -900. By watching resignations the 9E folks are choosing to either bail or watch. The SSP list is down in the -200 CA numbers, but without new hires that is a wash. If new hires show up, and upgrades start (144 to start), I think the idea of movement and "doom and gloom" change. DL just dropped a "costed" $30M in bonuses into the operation and the FO SSP discussion starts tomorrow.
Many are in a fuss about the SSP/ETD and the difference in movement numbers. I COMPLETELY understand the frustration of those with a CJO and being held here. No challenge there, yet it is allowed per the bridge agreement as it is a YEARLY number. I won't dwell on that, let's keep the big picture in mind. The SSP interviews are at the last 80ish on the CA list, many are new CA'S waiting on the first interview. There are a slew of CA's who are either on round 2 or now entertaining round 1 for the interview. Without a change, the 144/300ish number still bottoms out the list quickly without a change to the SSP interview process. If FO's get a legit shake at the interview (as in a guaranteed face time interview), this helps things. Most here on the FO side feel they are being held AWAY from DL with the current process. The interview numbers have come up and it at least allows 2 bites at the apple. Like all of the changes that have happened in the last 12-18 months, it's better than where we are now. As far as new hires, well.. if movement is happening in the list, and more new hires arrive to allow for continued movement things will be fine. Additionally, the list has gone into the -200 CA list, which means with new hires upgrades will happen and benefit the pre-merger 9E folks who feel the door was slammed in their face. Time will tell, but I don't see anything currently happening as a negative. The SSP for FO language should hold the keys to sway that decision on a personal level. It happens tomorrow.
Grammar Police UNITE!
In the end, the Bloch ruling only adds salt in the wound for some, a wind in the sail for others, and a PITA factor for the company. Most of the legacy 9L (Colgan) guys are either CA's or gone, and those remaining on the XJ list are well aware of movement on the -900. By watching resignations the 9E folks are choosing to either bail or watch. The SSP list is down in the -200 CA numbers, but without new hires that is a wash. If new hires show up, and upgrades start (144 to start), I think the idea of movement and "doom and gloom" change. DL just dropped a "costed" $30M in bonuses into the operation and the FO SSP discussion starts tomorrow.
Many are in a fuss about the SSP/ETD and the difference in movement numbers. I COMPLETELY understand the frustration of those with a CJO and being held here. No challenge there, yet it is allowed per the bridge agreement as it is a YEARLY number. I won't dwell on that, let's keep the big picture in mind. The SSP interviews are at the last 80ish on the CA list, many are new CA'S waiting on the first interview. There are a slew of CA's who are either on round 2 or now entertaining round 1 for the interview. Without a change, the 144/300ish number still bottoms out the list quickly without a change to the SSP interview process. If FO's get a legit shake at the interview (as in a guaranteed face time interview), this helps things. Most here on the FO side feel they are being held AWAY from DL with the current process. The interview numbers have come up and it at least allows 2 bites at the apple. Like all of the changes that have happened in the last 12-18 months, it's better than where we are now. As far as new hires, well.. if movement is happening in the list, and more new hires arrive to allow for continued movement things will be fine. Additionally, the list has gone into the -200 CA list, which means with new hires upgrades will happen and benefit the pre-merger 9E folks who feel the door was slammed in their face. Time will tell, but I don't see anything currently happening as a negative. The SSP for FO language should hold the keys to sway that decision on a personal level. It happens tomorrow.
12-08-2014, 06:26 AM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebl14
So what is the date of hire of a junior captain from premerger pinnacle and Mesaba these days?
Colgan - Apr 07
Mesaba - Jun 07
Pinnacle - May 06
Things will get interesting once the Bloch fence comes down in 2016. There are a number of Mesaba guys that if they are still on property will not be able to hold their seat due of a ton of Pinnacle guys waiting to snipe them. Oddly enough, 2016 should be the year things get cooking in the hiring, so maybe they will luck out. Or if 2015 is a good year, they may move up a bit to avoid cut off. Time will tell...
Originally Posted by ebl14
So what is the date of hire of a junior captain from premerger pinnacle and Mesaba these days?
Colgan - Apr 07
Mesaba - Jun 07
Pinnacle - May 06
Things will get interesting once the Bloch fence comes down in 2016. There are a number of Mesaba guys that if they are still on property will not be able to hold their seat due of a ton of Pinnacle guys waiting to snipe them. Oddly enough, 2016 should be the year things get cooking in the hiring, so maybe they will luck out. Or if 2015 is a good year, they may move up a bit to avoid cut off. Time will tell...
Also it will not be a free for all bump and flush the day it expires. I doubt very seriously the company or union will allow bidding into 900 ca without a vacancy and creating a displacement and multiple training events. It's likely this won't be an issue as movement will generate vacancies. Any legacy XJ FO that has not upgraded by that time will likely see some temporary stagnation, so turnaround's fairplay. The DAL FO interview is likely largely aimed at raising morale among the FO ranks through these transitions.
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