thefoxsays

Next they (regionals) will want DOH too.

I'm all for absorbing regionals into mainline... But only a staple.

Otherwise as someone said.. Apply and get out of the regionals.

Even the flow through was a "staple" basically. Not DOH

ShyGuy

Really? Maybe those other pilots have been networking, attending job fairs, and really trying hard to get out of the regional in which lifers are enjoying the super senior lifestyle? You can't really say they are less qualified. They are just as qualified. If anything, the guy stuck at the regional could have skeletons in the closet and/or just can't pass a major interview. Why should this person therefore be entitled to a mainline job? Those other pilots took a risk and the plunge to move on. You didn't take a risk and stuck it out for whatever personal reasons. Why should you be rewarded for that?

+1

pete2800

This thread is going to be one massive illustration of why our industry sucks so bad. Entitlement attitude, superiority complexes, culture of self-abuse, projection of blame, clique-ish behavior, and generally a good demonstration of what not to do.

Joliet

Yep!!!! Isn't it wonderful?

The Juice

Sounds more like you sold yourself short from day 1, doing all this for a lot less than the pilots who you are, in your own words, imitating to be. You want to be one, then makes the moves to do it. If you are as experienced as you say you are, shouldnt be an issue at all. Right?

So, no. Being "part of American/Airways" entitles you to zippo when it comes to being a part of their seniority list unless it is something you negotiate and AA pilots agree to. And why would they agree to it? They wouldnt. Keep dreaming.


Have you ever heard the story of Prometheus? He was a Titan who, among other things, stole fire from Zeus and gave it to man. Zeus was very upset at Prometheus for this and he ordered Prometheus to be chained to a rock where everyday a vulture would come down and eat the liver out of the breathing Prometheus. At night the wound would heal, only for the vulture to return the next day to once again feast on Prometheus.

In this story, you (the PSA pilot) are Prometheus. And because you have done wrong, your sentence is to be chained to the rock of PSA for eternity so that Bedford can feast on your concessionary contract for the next 10 years. You do not get to go to Legacy, you dont get to jump on their seniority list. Everyday you get to wake up and live with that contract.

seafeye

Ok since many of you have no idea what has happened in recent history i will educate you.

Back when i was hired at PSA we were given seniority numbers at mainline. There was a CEL list that included PSA/PDT/MDT and Mainline.
When mainline US Airways shut down mid atlantic we had J4J's pilots. F/O's at MDT that came to PSA as captains under the J4J program. We were all told that this is because of the CEL list. And don't worry, we have mainline seniority numbers.
And you don't have to look too far back to see when TWA folded and AA took over the flying that TSA did under the American Connection brand went to Eagle. It was never ever Eagles flying but Eagle demanded they get it back. As recent as 2005.
ALPA needs to end this regional mess and as much as i think some Eagle/Envoy pilots are acting childish i believe they are acting out because their livelihood is at risk. And i understand. So we need to work together because i would rather see an Eagle pilot fly the 700's then some fresh out of riddle kid.
The ball is in ALPA's court and there won't be a better time then now to get this debacle sorted.

ShyGuy

That's a little too much of a dramatic reference. The PSA pilots did what's best for them. Not everyone wants to be a 8th year regional FO. A lot of the current senior corp of regional pilots upgraded to CA relatively quickly compared to FOs at regionals today who have been this way for 5-10+ years. It's easy to judge when one only spent 12 mos to 3 years as FO and have since upgraded and always made at least 60k or higher. The sooner people can accept that it's a dog eat dog world and no one will help you get the TPIC time for a major, the better off everyone will be. This is just another side affect of the so-called seniority system we are all stuck to. It's the one thing in this profession we all have no control over yet it controls 100% of pilot lives and careers. So when a group makes a decision to come out better in the seniority game, it's understandable. The regional model is broke. It broke a long time ago when CAs started making 6 figures and could out-earn legacy FOs on even the biggest equipment. The point of regional airlines is to do outsourced work at a much cheaper cost than mainline. This is an industry attempted correction to what the regional airline was suppose to be.

sailingfun

You do understand that AMerican not APA controls who is on the seniority list. I find it a common misconception that unions control the list. You will have to get management to choose to merge the lists and then produce a joint contract. Parker may not like the idea.

pete2800

Serious question...

What would you recommend a young aspiring pilot do? Not everyone can be a military pilot. Part 91 or corporate jobs are usually hard to come by.

Working at a regional is selling yourself short, and doing the job for less than mainline pilots, effectively undercutting them. It's difficult to raise the level of compensation when flying simply gets shipped from contractor to contractor, and ALPA both negotiates and advocates contracts that trade monetary gains for potential growth. I can promise you that no one is more unhappy about the existence of regional airlines than regional pilots. It's a mess. And unfortunately for many people, it's really the only way to gain the experience that the major and legacy carriers require. How do you propose to stop the undercutting that regional pilots are engaging in? Is alienating them the correct answer? Blaming the pilot groups? Clearly a merger/integration is off the table, and flow-through agreements have proven to be useless. Staple? Integration, but with eternal fences?

I'm honestly not trolling or trying to be inflammatory, I'm just really curious as to what appears to be the best (realistic) solution from your vantage point.

I sympathize with your distain for the PSA situation. I dislike it too. But there are many regional pilots who aren't interested in selling others out for personal gain. We seem to be rewarded with a 10 year upgrade in a Dash-8, though. There must be a better way...

seafeye

Don't bother. They were all born with 10,000 hours.

If funny though. Next time you jump seat. Ask the captain and f/o how much flight time they had when they got hired. Most I speak to say around 2500.
Most regional pilots have double that in 121 PIC. Yet we are not worthy.