Foreign airlines may save regional pilots
06-24-2014, 06:18 PM
#121
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
06-24-2014, 07:36 PM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 471
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 
It's safe to say the title of this thread is ignorant and long term regional pilots will not be saved is this scam happens. The regionals were meant to be a short term job. 9/11 happened, the economy crashed, and the retirement age raising to 65 caused a lost decade with no movement to the majors. That is just bad timing. Wrecking the entire industry is not the solution.
But DAL has CRJ pay on their books and has yet to pay it! CAL scabs welcomed back into ALPA. DAL shutting down Comair (Comair pilots having to start all over, would you still call NWA pilots having sour grapes if none of them were allowed to continue working at DAL if they complain?) DAL being allowed to force a company into bankruptcy and use bankruptcy laws only to get out of contract obligations. Legal agreements outright ignored by DAL and ALPA.
I do not promote NAI but I do have much confusion on who and what is really wrecking the entire industry. Maybe there is some justification of sour grapes and victimhood just like many mainline pilots had during or after the Lorenzo era. You forgot about Lorenzo Hockey.
It's safe to say the title of this thread is ignorant and long term regional pilots will not be saved is this scam happens. The regionals were meant to be a short term job. 9/11 happened, the economy crashed, and the retirement age raising to 65 caused a lost decade with no movement to the majors. That is just bad timing. Wrecking the entire industry is not the solution.
Rarely has a single post summarized a three-page thread full of sour grapes and victimhood so succinctly and accurately. Top marks, Hockeypilot.
"I didn't make it to the big leagues so screw the profession. I'll gladly fly a 787 for a nonunion foreign operator for barely more than CRJ CA pay, cuz ... well, cuz ALPA should've handed me a job at a major, dammit!"
"I didn't make it to the big leagues so screw the profession. I'll gladly fly a 787 for a nonunion foreign operator for barely more than CRJ CA pay, cuz ... well, cuz ALPA should've handed me a job at a major, dammit!"
I do not promote NAI but I do have much confusion on who and what is really wrecking the entire industry. Maybe there is some justification of sour grapes and victimhood just like many mainline pilots had during or after the Lorenzo era. You forgot about Lorenzo Hockey.
06-24-2014, 07:39 PM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
It's safe to say the title of this thread is ignorant and long term regional pilots will not be saved is this scam happens. The regionals were meant to be a short term job. 9/11 happened, the economy crashed, and the retirement age raising to 65 caused a lost decade with no movement to the majors. That is just bad timing. Wrecking the entire industry is not the solution.
But DAL has CRJ pay on their books and has yet to pay it! CAL scabs welcomed back into ALPA. DAL shutting down Comair (pilots having to start all over) then DAL being allowed to force a company into bankruptcy and use bankruptcy laws only to get out of contract obligations. Legal agreements outright ignored by DAL and ALPA. I do not promote NAI but I do have much confusion on who and what is really wrecking the entire industry. Maybe there is some justification of sour grapes and victimhood just like many mainline pilots had during or after the Lorenzo era. You forgot about Lorenzo Hockey.
It's safe to say the title of this thread is ignorant and long term regional pilots will not be saved is this scam happens. The regionals were meant to be a short term job. 9/11 happened, the economy crashed, and the retirement age raising to 65 caused a lost decade with no movement to the majors. That is just bad timing. Wrecking the entire industry is not the solution.
But DAL has CRJ pay on their books and has yet to pay it! CAL scabs welcomed back into ALPA. DAL shutting down Comair (pilots having to start all over) then DAL being allowed to force a company into bankruptcy and use bankruptcy laws only to get out of contract obligations. Legal agreements outright ignored by DAL and ALPA. I do not promote NAI but I do have much confusion on who and what is really wrecking the entire industry. Maybe there is some justification of sour grapes and victimhood just like many mainline pilots had during or after the Lorenzo era. You forgot about Lorenzo Hockey.
Icahn was a peach too...
06-24-2014, 07:50 PM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 471
Sorry I'm still confused. Which interview do you mean the one at DAL or the one at Endeavor EtD?
06-24-2014, 07:51 PM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,953
This is relevant how?
This is relevant how?
And this is mainline pilots' fault, how exactly?
Please explain.
The profession was wrecked by deregulation in the 1970's, robber barons like Lorenzo and Icahn in the 1980's, scope sales in the 1990's, and 9/11 and recession in the 2000's. Now that there's been consolidation and sensible capacity discipline, the industry is finally turning a corner, and pilots at the majors are slowly cashing in. The biggest threats right now are from state-supported mid-east carriers attempting to reinvent the industry in their image, and bottom-feeder Laker reincarnations using every loophole they can to exploit labor anywhere in the world.
As far as the regionals are concerned, market pressures will eventually lead to increased compensation, and fewer (but larger) RJ's. I feel bad for the "lost generation" who've spent too many years in an RJ and feel they can't start over at a major, I truly do. But, unless you're in your 50's, it's still the wisest career move.
This is relevant how?
Please explain.
I do not promote NAI but I do have much confusion on who and what is really wrecking the entire industry. Maybe there is some justification of sour grapes and victimhood just like many mainline pilots had during or after the Lorenzo era. You forgot about Lorenzo Hockey.
As far as the regionals are concerned, market pressures will eventually lead to increased compensation, and fewer (but larger) RJ's. I feel bad for the "lost generation" who've spent too many years in an RJ and feel they can't start over at a major, I truly do. But, unless you're in your 50's, it's still the wisest career move.
06-24-2014, 09:36 PM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 471
This is relevant how
DAL pilots state all flying is to be done by DAL pilots on DAL equipment. Endeavor pilots are flying DAL equipment at pay a scale below what is on DAL books.
This is relevant how?
Do you support scabbing? They should never be allowed back into ALPA regardless and do everything to weed them out!
And this is mainline pilots' fault, how exactly?
Not mainline pilots fault necessarily but it was in reference to wrecking the industry. A mainline is allowed to buy a regional shut it down and throw out all pilots. Not allowed to do that to mainline pilots if /when a mainline buys another mainline. I guess its ok to destroy other peoples livelihood as long as its not a mainline pilot
Please explain.
Ask a Mesaba pilot. They had a flow agreement that was not fully honored. DAL was allowed to change what was already agreed to. Yes it was with NWA but should have also been enforced fully after the merger.
The profession was wrecked by deregulation in the 1970's, robber barons like Lorenzo and Icahn in the 1980's, scope sales in the 1990's, and 9/11 and recession in the 2000's. Now that there's been consolidation and sensible capacity discipline, the industry is finally turning a corner, and pilots at the majors are slowly cashing in. The biggest threats right now are from state-supported mid-east carriers attempting to reinvent the industry in their image, and bottom-feeder Laker reincarnations using every loophole they can to exploit labor anywhere in the world.
As far as the regionals are concerned, market pressures will eventually lead to increased compensation, and fewer (but larger) RJ's. I feel bad for the "lost generation" who've spent too many years in an RJ and feel they can't start over at a major, I truly do. But, unless you're in your 50's, it's still the wisest career move.
DAL pilots state all flying is to be done by DAL pilots on DAL equipment. Endeavor pilots are flying DAL equipment at pay a scale below what is on DAL books.
This is relevant how?
Do you support scabbing? They should never be allowed back into ALPA regardless and do everything to weed them out!
And this is mainline pilots' fault, how exactly?
Not mainline pilots fault necessarily but it was in reference to wrecking the industry. A mainline is allowed to buy a regional shut it down and throw out all pilots. Not allowed to do that to mainline pilots if /when a mainline buys another mainline. I guess its ok to destroy other peoples livelihood as long as its not a mainline pilot
Please explain.
Ask a Mesaba pilot. They had a flow agreement that was not fully honored. DAL was allowed to change what was already agreed to. Yes it was with NWA but should have also been enforced fully after the merger.
The profession was wrecked by deregulation in the 1970's, robber barons like Lorenzo and Icahn in the 1980's, scope sales in the 1990's, and 9/11 and recession in the 2000's. Now that there's been consolidation and sensible capacity discipline, the industry is finally turning a corner, and pilots at the majors are slowly cashing in. The biggest threats right now are from state-supported mid-east carriers attempting to reinvent the industry in their image, and bottom-feeder Laker reincarnations using every loophole they can to exploit labor anywhere in the world.
As far as the regionals are concerned, market pressures will eventually lead to increased compensation, and fewer (but larger) RJ's. I feel bad for the "lost generation" who've spent too many years in an RJ and feel they can't start over at a major, I truly do. But, unless you're in your 50's, it's still the wisest career move.
06-25-2014, 12:27 PM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 352
06-25-2014, 04:22 PM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 869
I can't argue that, although I would caution disaffected regional pilots not to assume their enemies enemy is their friend.
The NAIs of the world aren't wanting rush into our market with the goal of creating rewarding aviation careers. When you look at why they are structured the way they are, it's clear that the goal is to source the cheapest global labor and fly in your back yard (ie. the worlds most lucrative consumer market). If you thought regionals were good at whipsawing, wait until you see it on the global scale.
Regional pilots may be able to stem the tide of demand short term, but long term, should the NAI model prevail, the manpower market for US flying will be global. That will suck for all of us, including disaffected regional pilots.
The NAIs of the world aren't wanting rush into our market with the goal of creating rewarding aviation careers. When you look at why they are structured the way they are, it's clear that the goal is to source the cheapest global labor and fly in your back yard (ie. the worlds most lucrative consumer market). If you thought regionals were good at whipsawing, wait until you see it on the global scale.
Regional pilots may be able to stem the tide of demand short term, but long term, should the NAI model prevail, the manpower market for US flying will be global. That will suck for all of us, including disaffected regional pilots.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
