NineGturn

That's not a fair statement. You don't own your own brand at the majors either...You're still operating under a parent company umbrella. Besides, pilots are just professionals performing a specific job which doesn't include marketing. The job the regional pilots perform is exactly the same as the job the major pilots perform, but for less pay.

The problem is not the airplanes either. The seat mile costs of 50 to 100 seat airliners is workable for the segments they are designed for, just like with a Boeing or Airbus, even at a reasonable pay scale for the pilots.

This is also kind of unfair. People stay at regional for a wide variety of very good reasons. Maybe they are settled into their domicile with a new family and don't want to take the risk and pay cut while commuting to a far away base just to fly a bigger plane. It may be many years before they reach pay equity as well. Maybe they have other personal reasons. Maybe they have a side business that makes more money and they can't risk it by moving.

I think it's disgusting to assume they "missed the boat" as if they are somehow condemned to a substandard job and professionally inferior to their mainline colleagues. I understand it's not you personally condemning them but it's a common theme that seems to be accepted by "regional" pilots.

GogglesPisano

Incorrect. It's plainly spelled out in our scope clauses. We own the flying. We've agreed to farm some of it out.

This thread is going in circles. The seniority system in the airline industry is here to stay. If you don't like it, if you're too
much of a "rugged individualist," leave us mediocre socialists behind and pursue your dream job as a free agent in the corporate world. (Overseas is good too, I hear: No seniority or unions to impede your career aspirations.)

Packrat

I think you'll change your tune when you are at the top of your seniority list.

Loon

Does not AOPA and WAI have their own monthly periodicals with amazing stories of the flying careers of many? How they started out at the local airport in a PA28 and are now behind the yoke of a 747.
I know you know what I mean. Don't play coy with me.

fosters

Of course I would and I will in 30 years. Unfortunately people see that top top big airplane pay and justify decades of substandard pay to get there. And it's stupid to pay like that. It's the very definition of the "rich" taking from the poor.

fosters

I agree it's the same job. You just have less negotiating capital to get raises.

Right. I said I can empathize why people don't leave. But the fact of the matter is, they had multiple chances to improve their lives and did not take the actions needed to do so.

In what way is being a senior CA at a commuter a substandard job? Quite frankly I can assure you that very few people at the majors give a hoot what is going on at the commuters, nobody cares, just like nobody cares who Gojets is, or how PSA voted in a new contract, or how Eagle and Pinnacle, ahem "Endeavor" are disintegrating as we speak, etc. They have their own stuff to worry about. In fact the % of *****ing that goes on here you would think everyone on the line is disgruntled when in fact that just isn't the case.

Packrat

Did you not know the pay scale when you took your job? Its right there on this website in the airline profiles section.

YOU accepted the crappy regional pay viewing it as a stepping stone to something better. If YOU and everyone like YOU refused to work for that pay, the pay would rise.

Supply and demand. Adam Smith knew that in the 18th Century. I guess you were sick that day when they covered it in 7th grade Social Studies.

I take it that means when YOU are the "rich" it will be okay to take it from the "poor" regional F/Os. Yikes! Talk about hypocrisy.

Flying Boxes

9G,
You sound more like a labor relations type working for the RAA trying to stir the pot against unions.

Who determines a "quality" pilot for hire and upgrade? The Chief Pilot? HR? Some subjective test?

I don't want to watch (Insert special hire, Mgt Kid, whatever) upgrade because they are obviously "better" pilots (because they are special hire, Mgt Kid, etc) than every other F/O! Especially if they are only a year or two into this career.

RJ pilots are pilots. Some/many will interview for Majors/Legacy and will be as qualified as other applicants. I would rather hope for the equipment currently flown by regional airlines be flown by the mainline and hire pilots! But this would mean Mgt would have to pay them more! Which is the real reason regional airlines exist. To pay less! Not because RJ pilots are not qualified, but because they can pay them less and whipsaw them. I hope RJ pilots demand and get better pay and work to prevent the wipsaw so it become better for Mgt to move equipment to mainline. Not sure if that is doable, but a nice idea.

Flying Boxes

Flying Mag…..Maybe

AOPA, NO! They promote General Aviation! And they advocate for GA to congress so this country maintains the freedom to fly where and when one wishes.

Please research what AOPA does. DONT ASSUME.

fosters

I'm not even sure what your argument is...

If someone said after decades of working for lower pay, finally getting that CA upgrade in the widebody for 2-3 years at the peak of their "career", that they would not like it, would you believe them? Of course not.

My point was the payscale is flawed from the get go. It should be much more flat.

When I talk to the guys who I fly with, most started at smaller carriers who were merged into bigger ones and ended up at their major that way. Some were military and got hired on without going to a commuter. But none have any idea what it's like nowadays working for outsourced flying. I really can't believe someone would actually blame pilots for taking pretty much the only job (a commuter) that will get them where they want to go (a major). It speaks volumes about your lack of character.

No, it's not the new F/O's fault their pay is so bad. It's the senior guys who negotiate their contract. They always get the lions share of the raises, the vacation, etc. But it's always been like that, of course, even when there wasn't outsourced flying. The difference is it takes 8-10 years to get to the major vs. 2-3 back then. And instead of flying RJ's you were flying Navajos.