NineGturn

I was getting at a solution over the last couple pages. That the regionals need to abandon the principle of a strict seniority system in order to survive and in order to provide a suitable and viable place for the newest pilots among us to enter the career and gain quality experience.

Hiring higher qualified pilots into higher positions including direct entry captains and limiting the number of low time entry level pilots (which would happen anyway as there simply aren't enough to fill all the slots). Making the job more respectable and desirable for those who end up staying while still allowing those who wish to move on the platform to gain experience.

It has been said before that the majors will and do hire first officers directly out of the regionals. There should be no need to have fast upgrades at a regional by low time pilots if there's no intention to make a long term career there.

The increase in pay for the higher experience will be covered by saving on training by not allowing as much transition and upgrade training for those who plan to move on. Savings will also be realized by reducing turnover.

Std Deviation

I smell a masters thesis or dissertation . I would also include the concept of pay for training (e.g. "Pilots are [or were] willing to pay in excess of $10,000 to advance their careers)

Flying Ninja

AOPA is a joke. For $45/year you basically are asking to be harassed for more money to fund their C-suite treasury. They also have plenty of issues of their magazine talking about pilot careers and jets.

As for WAI...I thought that organization was there to support women in aviation. It turned its ugly head and is nothing more than a money making machine. Rumor has it thousands of pilots had no choice but to pay $300+ for a recent Orlando "job fair" to talk to major airlines. Yeah...what's WAI's mission statement again?

"Women in Aviation, International is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the encouragement and advancement of women in all aviation career fields and interests."

They can add "...oh, and we also rip off regional airline pilots at the door because we got the bait they want to bite on."

NineGturn

Ha...no I just sink my teeth into something and hang on. I feel I've learned a lot and have changed my thoughts a lot since the start of this thread though.

The pay for training thing is related but still a separate issue imo. It still goes on in Europe as well as "pay to fly" programs that are even scarier. The problem is when you have enough entry level pilots with no experience willing to displace more experienced pilots who actually have come to expect to be paid for their time. Airlines are inclined to "reach down" to the bottom of the barrel rather than hire the most qualified applicants...unless they are also willing to start at entry level wages.

Hopefully such practices naturally balance out over time as people don't bother to pursue a career where there is little opportunity for advancement to higher pay. I don't think we are seeing that phenomenon though. I think we are simply seeing that too many airlines are reaching for the bottom of the barrel at the same time and finding there's not much left but the more expensive and more experienced pilots floating near the top....so they cry "pilot shortage" when there are still plenty of (higher qualified) pilots in that barrel.

Std Deviation

I've posted on the other threads so many know my plight but here's a quick recap - been teaching at the big 142 school last couple years but have been employed as a freight, regional, and fractional pilot.
9300 hrs, turbine PIC, multiple types, etc).

Wanted to go back but the majors won't touch me without recency (my 25 hrs a yr in a Grumman Cheetah don't count). So I've been making the round of regional interviews with the perceived "bottom of the barrel guys". The last thing I want to do is leave my just under six figure salary for 26K; however, I also don't want to continue my current situation.
So I'm between a rock and a hard place. I run into the same guys at all the regional interviews.

Yes, there's a few with less than stellar credentials. However, there's also a slew of experienced military flyers that took a desk job or were subject to reduced flying over the last year. These guys are in the same boat. I was one of those "qualified ATPs" that said he'd never go back unless the salary came up. Then I came to the conclusion, that's a reality that will never happen. Or maybe it's a game of chicken and I just blinked before the airlines did. I just couldn't wait it out with the time I have left. Anyone that really wants to come back is slowing realizing that and will make the transition as well - as painful as it is.

seafeye

Yes, you either suck it up now or wait 10 years and suck it up then. Either way...

tom11011

I hear what you are saying, but I do wonder what the landscape is going to look like in 6 months. Will the shortage of pilots willing to work for current wages simply mirror the numbers today, or will it be twice as bad forcing something else like bigger sign on bonuses or the reverse- cancelled flights. You've been in the business so at least you know what you are in for.

Std Deviation

From a purely economics standpoint what's a way to decrease demand for a good or service? Increase the price. Perhaps a return to the days of $1500 fares from Chicago to DC are in order. As an analogy you can sell 1000 Camrys or 100 Ferraris and make the same amount of money.
There's a lot of Camrys in the system right now because of high demand. Higher airfare equals less demand equals less need for pilots. Ugly from a career standpoint but the economics are logical.

CBreezy

That's only the case if you are making the Camrys and the Farraris. You'd be better off saying Car A and Car B because, in the end, to the consume, air travel is almost all the same. If airilnes A, B, C, and D raise their fares but Airline E doesn't, guess where all the money is going to go. Not everyone is faced with a shortage. The LCCs would send the legacies into bankruptcy if they started charged $1500 for a one-way domestic ticket. The regionals will go away long before that happens.

JetRage

Consider also the complete lack of walk away power pilots with seniority have when offered a concessionary contract. After you've been with a company for several years you can't move laterally without taking a huge pay cut, hence pilots are willing to deal with all kinds of ridiculousness to protect their job at all costs. It shouldn't be that way.

If a company is not paying/treating you according to the value you bring to an organization one ought to be able to go elsewhere without having to pay dues all over again.