DOGIII

I think it is safe to say that the airlines (regionals mostly) assume some risk by training many new hires with no prior 121 time and likely have some pilots bailing/washing out after expensive training..
Would it be more practical to advocate higher 2nd year pay as opposed to 1st to offset this risk?

Example of a current fictional pay scale:
24,33,35,40...

Example some people are advocating (double first year pay):
48,50,52,55...

Example weighted towards 2nd year and up:
30,56,59,60...

Obviously these kinds of raises might seem highly optimistic and out of reach in light of todays low regional wages. Just toying with a general direction we might take, the net gains posted above are all equal.

skypilot35

At $30.00 / hr and a guarantee of 75 hours, that is $27,000.00 for the year. Ridiculous! The pay needs to be commensurate with the responsibility. Sure there is the risk of an applicant washing out or bailing out, but the airlines make that back ten-fold off the backs of all the ones who do make it through. I don't know what starting pay should be, but I'm pretty sure it should be above the poverty wages being offered. Like many have stated, there is no "pilot shortage", but a shortage of pilots willing to work for less than minimum wage.

minimwage4

Lower first year pay for regional training costs is a myth. Regionals figure in that cost when they quote majors for contracts. It's carryover from how mainline operates because yes they are paying for a new pilot with their own dime.

DOGIII

I agree to an extent.
I think pay should be increased but more heavily weighted towards the non-probationary status. I don't see anything wrong with the first year at a regional being somewhat of an internship (but still paid at above "poverty wages" as you correctly stated).
I just don't like when the ENTIRE regional model is viewed (and paid) as an internship to a major.

DOGIII

I think there might be a shortage of both.

blaine

In my opinion, the only people who are paid wages that are unfair and unlivable are new hire or low seniority first officers. They make between 18k - 25k the first year and top out the position in the high 30k's to low 40k's. They basically do the exact same job as the captain and can be stuck there for a decade while waiting for the captains seat. The only difference is authority. The entire pilot pay structure should be changed to more accommodate first officers. If you're making north of 50k - 60k, you're just a crying captain, the industry pays you very well. Concentrate the fight on the pilots who really need it. If you're making decent money and still complaining, you're just hurting the industry as a whole by looking greedy. Increase pay for the first 4 years as FO and you'll likely see a dramatic change in applications by qualified pilots. I myself hesitate returning to a regional simply because of the pay, that's it. Plenty of experienced guys like me would fill the demand if the pay were better. If you're going to write a letter to your congressmen, how about explaining the low pay is for FO's and NOT captains. The public knows captains make good money but are blind about FO's, they just think pilots in general make good money. The shortage doesn't have much to do with the 1500 hour rule either, it's about qualified pilots not coming to the regionals because of low FO pay and overall QOL issues. There are industry flight attendants who make more than many pilots, in what world is the even acceptable?

Cubdriver

Strong evidence (FAA stats etc.) support the notion there are about twice as many active ATPs in the United States as there are jobs flying at the regional airlines. That number does not even include those who dropped out of flying and went to other fields because the pay was so awful or the lifestyle was not suitable. America has long been a favorable location for cheap pilot training with literally hundreds of thousands of people holding ATPs at any one time, with well over a hundred thousand (around 140k I think) considered currently active by the FAA.

No pilot shortage currently exists- only a minor shortage of those who are willing to do the job in a state of poverty. If the regionals bring pilot pay on par with most other jobs of comparable training in the world, instantly the alleged shortage will be gone. First year pay is typically well over $50k for similar jobs like engineers, accountants, paralegals, nurses etc.

Systemized

Does anyone have a copy or idea of what Delta's negotiated 76-seat rates are?

sailingfun

There is no 76 seat rate at Delta. There is a 90 seat rate. 12 year CA is 139 effective 1 Jan15.

BoilerUP

No.

Training pilots is a cost of doing business as an aircraft operator.

If the washout rate is high then you need better candidate selection and training processes; if the attrition rate for <1yr pilots is high then you need to address the reasons those pilots are leaving...likely related to compensation or poor quality of life.