Higher 2nd Year Pay At Regionals
05-01-2014, 12:22 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 389
In my opinion, the only people who are paid wages that are unfair and unlivable are new hire or low seniority first officers. They make between 18k - 25k the first year and top out the position in the high 30k's to low 40k's. They basically do the exact same job as the captain and can be stuck there for a decade while waiting for the captains seat. The only difference is authority. The entire pilot pay structure should be changed to more accommodate first officers. If you're making north of 50k - 60k, you're just a crying captain, the industry pays you very well. Concentrate the fight on the pilots who really need it. If you're making decent money and still complaining, you're just hurting the industry as a whole by looking greedy. Increase pay for the first 4 years as FO and you'll likely see a dramatic change in applications by qualified pilots. I myself hesitate returning to a regional simply because of the pay, that's it. Plenty of experienced guys like me would fill the demand if the pay were better. If you're going to write a letter to your congressmen, how about explaining the low pay is for FO's and NOT captains. The public knows captains make good money but are blind about FO's, they just think pilots in general make good money. The shortage doesn't have much to do with the 1500 hour rule either, it's about qualified pilots not coming to the regionals because of low FO pay and overall QOL issues. There are industry flight attendants who make more than many pilots, in what world is the even acceptable?
05-01-2014, 01:08 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 3,044
Instead of relying on other airlines to bring up the average and then just piggy backing off of them.
There are some pilots that in the past might have said, "If Skywest would have had higher pay, then my last airline might not have asked us to take a paycut or fly a 70 seat aircraft for 50 seat rates".
05-01-2014, 01:47 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: First Officer
Posts: 121
Dude, you need to raise your expectations, in my opinion. $50K is a lot of money? Do you still live in your parents basement? You might be still if your're topping out at 50K. Get a little greedy, it's okay. Our time has come. Now if it werent for Pinnacle and PSA I'd be making a lot more money on the last pay package.
05-01-2014, 01:59 PM
#15
Need More Flight Time!
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Flight Simulator X
Posts: 400
05-01-2014, 07:40 PM
#17
Moderator
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
Characteristics of a profession
(Wikipedia)
There is considerable agreement about defining the characteristic features of a profession. They have a "professional association, cognitive base, institutionalized training, licensing, work autonomy, colleague control... (and) code of ethics,"[20] to which Larson then also adds, "high standards of professional and intellectual excellence," (Larson, p. 221) that "professions are occupations with special power and prestige," (Larson, p.x) and that they comprise "an exclusive elite group," (Larson, p. 20) in all societies.
Members of a profession have also been defined as "workers whose qualities of detachment, autonomy, and group allegiance are more extensive than those found among other groups...their attributes include a high degree of systematic knowledge; strong community orientation and loyalty; self-regulation; and a system of rewards defined and administered by the community of workers."[21]
A profession has been further defined as: "a special type of occupation...(possessing) corporate solidarity...prolonged specialized training in a body of abstract knowledge, and a collectivity or service orientation...a vocational sub-culture which comprises implicit codes of behaviour, generates an esprit de corps among members of the same profession, and ensures them certain occupational advantages...(also) bureaucratic structures and monopolistic privileges to perform certain types of work...professional literature, legislation, etc." [22]
05-01-2014, 08:58 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
In my opinion, the only people who are paid wages that are unfair and unlivable are new hire or low seniority first officers. They make between 18k - 25k the first year and top out the position in the high 30k's to low 40k's. They basically do the exact same job as the captain and can be stuck there for a decade while waiting for the captains seat. The only difference is authority. The entire pilot pay structure should be changed to more accommodate first officers. If you're making north of 50k - 60k, you're just a crying captain, the industry pays you very well. Concentrate the fight on the pilots who really need it. If you're making decent money and still complaining, you're just hurting the industry as a whole by looking greedy. Increase pay for the first 4 years as FO and you'll likely see a dramatic change in applications by qualified pilots. I myself hesitate returning to a regional simply because of the pay, that's it. Plenty of experienced guys like me would fill the demand if the pay were better. If you're going to write a letter to your congressmen, how about explaining the low pay is for FO's and NOT captains. The public knows captains make good money but are blind about FO's, they just think pilots in general make good money. The shortage doesn't have much to do with the 1500 hour rule either, it's about qualified pilots not coming to the regionals because of low FO pay and overall QOL issues. There are industry flight attendants who make more than many pilots, in what world is the even acceptable?
"North of 50-60k, you're just a crying captain , the industry pays you very well"
Every captain was once an fo, and made the same wages you're crying about! Unlike you, I don't think anyone is overpaid at any regional in any position. We are all professionals with people's lives in our hands. Maybe where you're from "North of 50k" is "paid very well", but try supporting a wife and kids in any of our California bases on 50k and get back to me on how well the industry pays.
05-01-2014, 09:06 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: It's hot out here.
Posts: 617
Agree with you 100%. $50K is not nearly enough for the responsibility nor the profession. Just out of curiosity, what is enough? What amount would make someone "want" to stay at the regional level, if any?
05-01-2014, 09:45 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 256
I think it is safe to say that the airlines (regionals mostly) assume some risk by training many new hires with no prior 121 time and likely have some pilots bailing/washing out after expensive training..
Would it be more practical to advocate higher 2nd year pay as opposed to 1st to offset this risk?
Example of a current fictional pay scale:
24,33,35,40...
Example some people are advocating (double first year pay):
48,50,52,55...
Example weighted towards 2nd year and up:
30,56,59,60...
Obviously these kinds of raises might seem highly optimistic and out of reach in light of todays low regional wages. Just toying with a general direction we might take, the net gains posted above are all equal.
Would it be more practical to advocate higher 2nd year pay as opposed to 1st to offset this risk?
Example of a current fictional pay scale:
24,33,35,40...
Example some people are advocating (double first year pay):
48,50,52,55...
Example weighted towards 2nd year and up:
30,56,59,60...
Obviously these kinds of raises might seem highly optimistic and out of reach in light of todays low regional wages. Just toying with a general direction we might take, the net gains posted above are all equal.
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