Eagle TA independent view.
03-26-2014, 01:28 AM
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 49
Eagle TA independent view.
Excerpt taken from PlaneBusiness Banter by Holly Hegeman, Editor
Friday March 21, 2014, Volume 18, Issue 11
Speaking of the regional airline sector, the pilots at American Eagle continue to vote on the tentative agreement proposal the Air Line Pilots Association MEC put out for a vote. The voting period on the TA ends next week, so we will then have an answer as to whether American Airlines will be using American Eagle to fly those sixty new Embraer E-Jets, or whether the flying will be dispersed amongst the list of regionals that bid for the work. As we mentioned previously, that RFP which breaks the flying up into three sets of 20 aircraft each has already gone out for bids.
I want to take a few minutes and talk about this vote, as I think it is one of the most important union votes we've seen in the industry of late. First of all, I would like to say to the leaders of the ALPA MEC who refused to recommend to members of their union how they should vote on this agreement -- shame on you. Abstention is not an option. (Three members voted to recommend the agreement to members, while six members abstained.) The members of your union elected you to represent them. They don't have the same level of access to management discussions and negotiations that you have. They don't have access to the same information on a national ALPA scale as you have. You were elected to represent them in situations just like this.
For a member of the Eagle MEC to stand on the sidelines, pull the political card, and not provide more guidance to members on such an important vote is, well, shameful.
Hope you guys can sleep at night.
Having said that, I want to say a few things about this proposed contract because there is a lot of bad information out there concerning it. I think American Eagle pilots need to vote yes, not no.
1) The number one misperception about this agreement that I have heard over and over again is that Eagle management will come back to ALPA if the union votes down the deal because no other regional will be able to hire pilots to staf the new flying.
If you are an American Eagle pilot and this is why you are going to vote no, you are in for a rude awakening. Is not going to happen. RFPs are out. There are hungry stand-alone regional airlines out there ready to pounce.
They will find the pilots.
2) On the reverse side of the argument, another misperception is that Eagle won't be able to hire anyone. I decided to ask around and see just how the hiring pool looks at American Eagle. Since we've heard mixed messages from other regional airlines of late, (including some mild hysteria) and since it would stand to reason that a job at Eagle, with a flow-through, would be better than a job at a standalone regional, guess what we found out?
According to more than one source (and they both coincide so I am going to go with the numbers) between the time that the first agreement was reached until the time the MEC voted not to send it out, weekly pilot applications went from 8 per week to 66 per week. Applications then dropped to only about 3 or 4 per week after the MEC voted not to send the deal out. Makes sense.
What does this tell you? It tells me that American Eagle with a pilot contract is looked upon as a desirable place for pilots to work.
How are applications looking now? I was told that after the "new" TA was reached, there was yet another spike in applications. Weekly applications are now back in the 50 to 55 per week range. And I am told the overwhelming majority of those applicants are qualified to fly the airplanes that need to be flown.
3) The flow-through agreement. What is the dif erence between what is in place now and what will be in place in the future if the TA passes?
Today, Eagle provides 50% of the monthly new hire class to American. If the class is 40, Eagle supplies 20. Under the new deal, 100% of the first 30 pilots American hires in a month will come from Eagle. That is a significant improvement, especially if American is hiring smaller classes, like 20 per month. Previously, only 10 would have flowed through to American; under the terms of the new contract, it would be all 20.
So if the class is 30, it is all Eagle. If it is 40, 30 are Eagle. Granted, if the new class is 60, only 30 will be Eagle. But that would still be 50% -- the same as the current agreement.
4) As best I can tell, not one pilot takes a paycut as part of this deal.
First Officers below 8 years and Captains below 12 years will still get step increases, Captains in years 15 to 17 will keep getting annual increases, First Officers who are promoted to Captains will get huge pay increases, and Captains who flow through to American will obviously hit the jackpot.
5) This deal guarantees 170 aircraft. The contract between Delta and Endeavor only guarantees 81.
Oh, and another thing I learned this week. While Endeavor pilots do have flow-through rights -- they only have 12 a month. In addition, they have to interview at Delta. Sources tell me that less than half of them are receiving job offers. All of Eagle's flow-through pilots will get an offer because there is no interview.
So why are pilots telling me they are going to vote no? Two main reasons.
1) "The only way to attract pilots is to raise pay and benefits." (See above. Apparently American is not having trouble getting applications.) I'm sure a lot of people would like to see the entire regional/mainline system gutted and changed -- I know I would. But this contract is not going to do that. Nor will this happen if the contract is not approved. But not approving this contract could make the lives of American Eagle pilots much worse. Sorry. Wish I could say otherwise. So if you want to vote no and "stand for the cause" it's not going to end well. As I said, those RFPs are already out there.
2) "Mainline carriers are making record profits. We want more."
Unfortunately, that is not how the broken regional airline model in the U.S. works. Or doesn't work. How it works right now is this: there are regional airlines out there that will bid on these RFPs at rates lower than the costs contained in this TA. That's a fact. A sad fact. It is the model that is broken. Given the constraints of that broken model, I say a "yes" to this contract beats the alternative.
We'll all find out which way the vote goes next week.
Friday March 21, 2014, Volume 18, Issue 11
Speaking of the regional airline sector, the pilots at American Eagle continue to vote on the tentative agreement proposal the Air Line Pilots Association MEC put out for a vote. The voting period on the TA ends next week, so we will then have an answer as to whether American Airlines will be using American Eagle to fly those sixty new Embraer E-Jets, or whether the flying will be dispersed amongst the list of regionals that bid for the work. As we mentioned previously, that RFP which breaks the flying up into three sets of 20 aircraft each has already gone out for bids.
I want to take a few minutes and talk about this vote, as I think it is one of the most important union votes we've seen in the industry of late. First of all, I would like to say to the leaders of the ALPA MEC who refused to recommend to members of their union how they should vote on this agreement -- shame on you. Abstention is not an option. (Three members voted to recommend the agreement to members, while six members abstained.) The members of your union elected you to represent them. They don't have the same level of access to management discussions and negotiations that you have. They don't have access to the same information on a national ALPA scale as you have. You were elected to represent them in situations just like this.
For a member of the Eagle MEC to stand on the sidelines, pull the political card, and not provide more guidance to members on such an important vote is, well, shameful.
Hope you guys can sleep at night.
Having said that, I want to say a few things about this proposed contract because there is a lot of bad information out there concerning it. I think American Eagle pilots need to vote yes, not no.
1) The number one misperception about this agreement that I have heard over and over again is that Eagle management will come back to ALPA if the union votes down the deal because no other regional will be able to hire pilots to staf the new flying.
If you are an American Eagle pilot and this is why you are going to vote no, you are in for a rude awakening. Is not going to happen. RFPs are out. There are hungry stand-alone regional airlines out there ready to pounce.
They will find the pilots.
2) On the reverse side of the argument, another misperception is that Eagle won't be able to hire anyone. I decided to ask around and see just how the hiring pool looks at American Eagle. Since we've heard mixed messages from other regional airlines of late, (including some mild hysteria) and since it would stand to reason that a job at Eagle, with a flow-through, would be better than a job at a standalone regional, guess what we found out?
According to more than one source (and they both coincide so I am going to go with the numbers) between the time that the first agreement was reached until the time the MEC voted not to send it out, weekly pilot applications went from 8 per week to 66 per week. Applications then dropped to only about 3 or 4 per week after the MEC voted not to send the deal out. Makes sense.
What does this tell you? It tells me that American Eagle with a pilot contract is looked upon as a desirable place for pilots to work.
How are applications looking now? I was told that after the "new" TA was reached, there was yet another spike in applications. Weekly applications are now back in the 50 to 55 per week range. And I am told the overwhelming majority of those applicants are qualified to fly the airplanes that need to be flown.
3) The flow-through agreement. What is the dif erence between what is in place now and what will be in place in the future if the TA passes?
Today, Eagle provides 50% of the monthly new hire class to American. If the class is 40, Eagle supplies 20. Under the new deal, 100% of the first 30 pilots American hires in a month will come from Eagle. That is a significant improvement, especially if American is hiring smaller classes, like 20 per month. Previously, only 10 would have flowed through to American; under the terms of the new contract, it would be all 20.
So if the class is 30, it is all Eagle. If it is 40, 30 are Eagle. Granted, if the new class is 60, only 30 will be Eagle. But that would still be 50% -- the same as the current agreement.
4) As best I can tell, not one pilot takes a paycut as part of this deal.
First Officers below 8 years and Captains below 12 years will still get step increases, Captains in years 15 to 17 will keep getting annual increases, First Officers who are promoted to Captains will get huge pay increases, and Captains who flow through to American will obviously hit the jackpot.
5) This deal guarantees 170 aircraft. The contract between Delta and Endeavor only guarantees 81.
Oh, and another thing I learned this week. While Endeavor pilots do have flow-through rights -- they only have 12 a month. In addition, they have to interview at Delta. Sources tell me that less than half of them are receiving job offers. All of Eagle's flow-through pilots will get an offer because there is no interview.
So why are pilots telling me they are going to vote no? Two main reasons.
1) "The only way to attract pilots is to raise pay and benefits." (See above. Apparently American is not having trouble getting applications.) I'm sure a lot of people would like to see the entire regional/mainline system gutted and changed -- I know I would. But this contract is not going to do that. Nor will this happen if the contract is not approved. But not approving this contract could make the lives of American Eagle pilots much worse. Sorry. Wish I could say otherwise. So if you want to vote no and "stand for the cause" it's not going to end well. As I said, those RFPs are already out there.
2) "Mainline carriers are making record profits. We want more."
Unfortunately, that is not how the broken regional airline model in the U.S. works. Or doesn't work. How it works right now is this: there are regional airlines out there that will bid on these RFPs at rates lower than the costs contained in this TA. That's a fact. A sad fact. It is the model that is broken. Given the constraints of that broken model, I say a "yes" to this contract beats the alternative.
We'll all find out which way the vote goes next week.
03-26-2014, 02:35 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: ERJ, CA
Posts: 718
Did a quick search. She said the same thing about the AA deal in 2012.
I would not put it past management to plant these stories. Part of union busting tactics and FEAR 101.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/am...f-pilot-3.html
Someone commented:
This just in!!!!! Holly Hegeman of Plane Business Banter says American Airlines Pilots should all vote YES to managements last best final offer.
So that's it. I mean she would know right?
She was a receptionist or a speech writer for Bob Crandall. She left AMR in 1997.
Seriously, a receptionist knows more about what work rules for an airline pilot should be than say an, airline pilot?
So my 23.5% pay cut and work rules given up in 2003 to save AA from bankruptcy wasn't enough. So now Ms Hegeman beleives I should give up scope to American Eagle and unlimited code share to Jet Blue, Alaska and Hawaiian Air.
I would not put it past management to plant these stories. Part of union busting tactics and FEAR 101.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/am...f-pilot-3.html
Someone commented:
This just in!!!!! Holly Hegeman of Plane Business Banter says American Airlines Pilots should all vote YES to managements last best final offer.
So that's it. I mean she would know right?
She was a receptionist or a speech writer for Bob Crandall. She left AMR in 1997.
Seriously, a receptionist knows more about what work rules for an airline pilot should be than say an, airline pilot?
So my 23.5% pay cut and work rules given up in 2003 to save AA from bankruptcy wasn't enough. So now Ms Hegeman beleives I should give up scope to American Eagle and unlimited code share to Jet Blue, Alaska and Hawaiian Air.
03-26-2014, 04:05 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 338
Well Holly, thanks for your <independent> input. Oh, and thanks Allison for being the lead cheerleader again.
But Holly, you see, it's simple. I'm quite sure that the six members of the MEC sleep fine. By abstaining, they put this out to a pilot vote (thus shutting up our mgt and the yes voters) without endorsing it. I've heard many times in my years as a union member that leadership shouldn't vote yes to anything that they don't think will pass a membership vote. The "six" don't think this will pass, but in the interest of putting this whole thing to bed, they abstained. Had not a small minority of rogue leadership gone behind their backs we wouldn't be here.
As for the membership, after six years of flow backs, two years of divestiture threats, which went right up into two years of bankruptcy, then followed ten days later by this <manure>, I think it's safe to say that the Eagle pilots are "done." AMR mgt has violated our contract, our trust, and our respect such that even their hired gun union buster couldn't believe our level of cynicism.
Since you've been calmly sitting in your chair with a nice little career going without our turmoil, you don't know any of this though. Which comes to my point. You don't know what the _____ you're talking about, so shut up.
And have a nice day.
But Holly, you see, it's simple. I'm quite sure that the six members of the MEC sleep fine. By abstaining, they put this out to a pilot vote (thus shutting up our mgt and the yes voters) without endorsing it. I've heard many times in my years as a union member that leadership shouldn't vote yes to anything that they don't think will pass a membership vote. The "six" don't think this will pass, but in the interest of putting this whole thing to bed, they abstained. Had not a small minority of rogue leadership gone behind their backs we wouldn't be here.
As for the membership, after six years of flow backs, two years of divestiture threats, which went right up into two years of bankruptcy, then followed ten days later by this <manure>, I think it's safe to say that the Eagle pilots are "done." AMR mgt has violated our contract, our trust, and our respect such that even their hired gun union buster couldn't believe our level of cynicism.
Since you've been calmly sitting in your chair with a nice little career going without our turmoil, you don't know any of this though. Which comes to my point. You don't know what the _____ you're talking about, so shut up.
And have a nice day.
Last edited by Iowa Farm Boy; 03-26-2014 at 04:31 AM.
03-26-2014, 04:16 AM
#5
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,619
I love the full court press managements are doing in the press/media trying to get these crappy TAs ratified.
"Here, let us tell you why this is a good idea for you because you're obviously too stupid to see it yourself."
"Here, let us tell you why this is a good idea for you because you're obviously too stupid to see it yourself."
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
bernoulli1129
Flight Schools and Training
28
01-17-2017 03:48 PM
