Originally Posted by PCL_128

Bulls---. Show the letter.

Originally Posted by todd1200

I think he's referring to the letter from ALPA National VP Tom Maxwell to the Eagle MEC where he says:

Originally Posted by Lambourne

Actually I wasn't arguing. I was supporting the OP in the quest to leave ALPA. The major carrier pilots have been arguing for years about the conflict of interest and the mass amount of our dues dollars that go to supporting the regional carriers MEC's. At the major carriers we have battled B-Scale. 9-11, BK, mergers etc. We have had concessionary contracts and incremental increases, large increases, large decreases and now some increases again. We have had to fight our own battles using OUR pilots doing OUR union work.

The RJ carriers seen to think they don't need wise union leaders. Just hit the ALPA national autopilot button and let the magenta line lead you to the promised. It just doesn't work like that. What is really amusing is the first time these RJ carriers hit a path of adversity they want to overthrow ALPA. That is fine by me as I think it helps my national union. Just remember the same weak pilot group with ALPA as the union is the same weak pilot group without.

Originally Posted by Lambourne

Is this too soon?


Yes I did. I saw it as a fools bet. The big problem was how it was sold versus how it was implemented. We were told by ALPA and the company they would be to add frequency versus wholesale market substitutes.

The RJ pilots have the carcasses of former regional carriers laying to see that there is always a lower bidder. ACA and COMAIR are only two of the biggest casualties.

The regional companies know they can shutdown one entity and those pilots are all out looking for new jobs somewhere else. The fact these carriers don't have a brand or customer base means another carrier can do their job. It might take a few months of pain on the major carriers behalf but it can be done. With the 50 seater dying and better major scope clauses these pilot groups are going to feel a pinch. They want our profits, yet their company negotiates a FFD. just as when the majors were losing money they were paid the same. When they have no risk they shouldn't get any reward.

Just hope this nightmare of the proliferation of the RJ is almost over.

Originally Posted by Dutch1

Mainline negotiates scope. Giving up scope means giving up cities. You're making a distinction without a difference. And when those are the only jobs available, those aspiring for better are not to blame for taking them for attempting to use them as stepping stones.

Originally Posted by AxialFlow

Quite the predicament all of the ALPO cheerleaders have created. Who is ALPO? ALPO is the pilots. But when pilots point the finger at ALPO...ALPO points the finger right back at the pilots. Who is right? Looks like a Mexican standoff.

Originally Posted by johnso29

Wrong again. Pilots don't control marketing. Marketing does. A B717, CRJ200, CRJ700, A319, and B757 have all gone into Augusta, GA for Delta. And there are plenty more examples like that. Cities that often see RJs also see the A319, B717, M88/90, & B737.

And RJs aren't the only jobs available. There are jobs flying part 135 in Caravans, Barons, C210s, B99s, ATRs, etc. If someone agrees to fly an RJ for the wages and work rules that they operate under, then they are part of the blame. Stop trying to paint them as victims. No one is forcing an RJ job upon them.

Originally Posted by Bzzt

A large portion of those jobs you mention actually pay less than a RJ job. Decent paying 135 and 91 flying jobs are actually quite hard to come by, and the schedules can be horrific. For those of us wanting to pursue this career (I still can't figure out why) a low paying bad qol RJ job is the best option.

Mainline pilots are who opened Pandora's box and created this RJ mess, now we all have to figure out how to fix it. One of the problems we face is a large portion of current mainline pilots have absolutely no perspective on how this career is outside of their cushy legacy job.

In the end there is no point arguing this. Most RJ pilots simply want the legacy pilots to retire/die so they can take their seats and most legacy pilots are too busy *****ing about RJ pilots stealing their jobs to realize code sharing and companies like JetBlue are truly stealing their jobs.

This industry is FUBAR and I have serious doubts it can be fixed.

Originally Posted by johnso29

I'm not whining about anyone taking my job. I cut my teeth flying RJs. I got to deal with un-commutable 17 hour 4 days that blessed me with a 3:30 sit before my last leg to EWR. Which of course turned into a 5+ hour sit because of flows and a ground stop at EWR. Nothing quite like that 16 hour duty day to cap a 4 day trip. I was constantly flown into my days off. I know what it's like. I've been there. But I also admit that by doing so, I was partially responsible for the mess. I refuse to give any RJ driver a free pass. You're not a victim.

Originally Posted by Bzzt

You're one of the lucky ones who escaped this garbage, why are you even wasting your time posting here? Sit back and relax, you won the lottery.