skyfull1

I may not have been in the airline industry as long as some of you may have and I am by no mean an expert. However since this new 117 rule has been talked about I immediately thought of the Buffalo crash and analyzed it a bit for myself and noticed that behind the fatigued pilots lied a whole other world which I then began to realize is a norm for regional pilots and some major airline pilots.

What I realized was that many pilots simply cannot afford to live on their low paying salaries and are then forced to have other jobs, they also often cannot afford to get a comfortable housing arrangement in those popular bases that their regionals have due to high cost of living vs low income so the are then forced into having to stay at uncomfortable crash pads and commute from other states on long flight as in the case of the Buffalo crash.

From speaking to fellow pilots I have heard them saying that if they made a little more money that they would even consider moving their families with them to their base and not push themselves into working an extra job or even two to cover their bills.

We have all been there at the low paying flying gigs but I think that the pay is a direct link to safety and fatigue. The 117 is addressing a small part of the issue but as some would agree that this rule has taken a bigger toll on their QOL and family life as well as being able to credit more at work which could turn them into burning themselves out in another job or two and that is the issue we need to address first!

Now I do not blame the airline management teams for taking advantage of us because we agreed to come work for these wages in most cases, but if we are going to try and fix the issue then the pay and QOL needs to be the top priority. I am a big believer that a person is much more well rested and less stressed out and bothered when he or she is financially stable.
Besides with all the regionals having staffing issues this is a great time to get together and try to push for something better, and I hope that AE and XJT will stick to their word and vote down those concessions that they are being asked to take. I say if the regional airlines cannot afford their product (Pilots to operate their airplanes) then let them go out of business or pay the price, it's simple!

I also came up with a system that may or may not work and I'd like to know what you guys think about it:
Since airlines try to keep ticket prices as low as possible to stay competitive, and the only thing they cannot change is the fees and taxes that the airport and government charge, therefore I think that there should be a government program in place to charge $5-20 (I don't know how many tickets are sold each month in the US to make a difference in a pilots paycheck) per ticket sold which would then increase everyone's ticket prices evenly across the board and have that amount divided evenly amongst all US airline pilots to help supplement their income.

Feel free to chime in with your thoughts and if you think these are valid points and you know of a way to promote these ideas please let me know and lets try to make things better for us all!!!

Packrat

Yeah, that's going to happen. The airlines will never stand for ANY increase in ticket prices that doesn't go directly into their pocket of the tax coffers. Name me ONE other industry where labor costs are subsidized by the taxpayer.

RV5M

Only regional pilots are underpaid, and then only as low senority FOs. Also, regional airlines don't sell tickets, they sell flying services to larger arlines, the cost of which is largely determined by the price of that regional's labor. I don't think a ticket tax would be the best solution. Maybe reduced pay for higher senority pilots with a raise at the bottom? I'd actually like to see a flatter pay structure. For example: FOs earn $45k, captains $75k, with opportunities to make more, such as overtime, holiday pay, longevity bonus, etc.

conquestdz

Virtually every minimum or close to minimum wage employer has their payroll subsidized with taxpayer dollars in the form of welfare/WIC/medicade or whatever other government aid for the poor their employees qualify for.
One Walmart's Low Wages Could Cost Taxpayers $900,000 Per Year, House Dems Find

Sum Ting Wong

They are not underpaid. No one is forcing anyone to work for low wages. If a person chooses to make $16,000 a year as a Regional pilot, that is his/her choice. He/she can make more money working full time as a grocery store cashier.

There is simply an abundance of people that want to fly for a living.

Writing, acting, photography, baseball, flying....too many people enter these fields and only those at the very top can earn a decent living. Somehow this message doesn’t get through. The pay scale is similar to baseball; the people at the top do very well, and those one step down (AAA league or the Regionals) earn something feeble, and the rest never earn a dime and have to find another career.

If its about safety we should "pass the hat" for police and firemen. Most pilots are pilots for a reason… it's a life long dream job.

A school bus driver holds the future of 25-50 young children each with the potential to become President. Are we going to pay him/her 100,000$ a year?

skyfull1

You guys are all right about the fact that being a pilot is a choice and it might not be clear to everyone who is looking to fly for a living how hard it is to start and how little bit of money you could be making in the beginning, however we have all paid a lot of money for our training which may be the mistake because it is not a good return on our investment in ourselves if we cannot pay back the loans or justify the amount of money we spent on this training, but this industry is due for some restructuring and I hope that there would be a way to bring positive change to our fellow pilots who are having a hard time starting up.

And as mentioned above we practically subsidize ALL of these low paid citizens one way or another with our taxes. I'm sure that many if not all 1st year pay FOs at the regionals could qualify for ALL of the government benefit plans which we end up paying for with increased taxes. We should shoot for high wages and not take it from the other tax payers. I actually looked into these benefits and I did qualify for them, however I refused to take it, but I just wanted to see where did I fall being an airline pilot which led me to slowing finding my way out of aviation since it seems like a pyramid scheme in a sense

BoilerUP

No.

I lived on regional pay with $60k+ in student loans, and I know -exactly- how much it sucks.

But you voluntarily accepted the job, knowing full well the compensation, benefits, and job locations. Act like an adult and accept responsibility for YOUR decisions.

That's not to say you shouldn't strive for compensation more commiserate with being a high speed aluminum tube operator...but look at the last decade of history man, the odds simply aren't in your favor. Having an expectation that the "Great Pilot Shortage" is going to provide a windfall is setting one up for HUGE disappointment.

Any and every time somebody tries to link higher pay to safer pilots, their argument FAILS and it FAILS hard.

Packrat

It is absolutely a pyramid scheme. Everyone thinks they're going to be a 747 International Captain and make huge bucks.

The truth of the matter is only a small fraction of pilots will ever make it to a Major airline, much less a whale left seat.

A lot of you are going to finish your career in the left seat of an RJ so you'd better sack up and stop voting for substandard contracts. And you'd better be willing to strike to get what you deserve.

atrdriver

You're right.

Say a regional FO doesn't make enough money to live in base and can't afford a hotel or crashpad, so they commute in on the redeye for a 13 hour duty/7 block hour day (take-home pay ~$120 by the way)... they're perfectly safe. I wouldn't have any qualms putting my family on said pilot's fifth flight of the day.

BoilerUP

I was that poor regional FO, once upon a time.

I spent 7 nights in September 2006 sleeping on a couch in a crewroom in PHL. I had a sleeping bag and pillow there for just that reason.

It was most certainly not ideal, but as a poor regional FO it was the best solution I had to balance my financial situation as a commuting probationary FO while ensuring I met my responsibility of starting a trip rested.

We all make decisions every day, and flying for a regional airline isn't slavery or even indentured servitude. Nobody is forcing somebody to take a redeye to save a few bucks, and let's be honest with ourselves, if pay went up $400/mo you and I both know a HUGE percentage of pilots would pocket that while continuing the actions they are already doing.

More pay doesn't make safer pilots.