FAR 117 rule isn't solving the real problem
12-26-2013, 03:36 PM
#41
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Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum Ting Wong
They are not underpaid. No one is forcing anyone to work for low wages. If a person chooses to make $16,000 a year as a Regional pilot, that is his/her choice. He/she can make more money working full time as a grocery store cashier.
There is simply an abundance of people that want to fly.
Bingo! This is supply and demand, and the unfortunate reality. Morally wrong, yes, but I've yet to see any company that is morally sound. The reality is, we choose to spend money on our careers, and then work for peanuts. We are truly our own worst enemies.
Originally Posted by Sum Ting Wong
They are not underpaid. No one is forcing anyone to work for low wages. If a person chooses to make $16,000 a year as a Regional pilot, that is his/her choice. He/she can make more money working full time as a grocery store cashier.
There is simply an abundance of people that want to fly.
Bingo! This is supply and demand, and the unfortunate reality. Morally wrong, yes, but I've yet to see any company that is morally sound. The reality is, we choose to spend money on our careers, and then work for peanuts. We are truly our own worst enemies.
If supply and demand dictated pay, then why are wages so high at Fed Ex, UPS, Southwest, etc. when these companies have so many applications on file.
The reality is that regional first officers really do subsidize the pay of senior regional captains. Why else would such a pay disparity exist between two equally trained and qualified pilots? Not every regional pilot can make $120,000, but it is possible for some to make that salary if others only make 25,000, in order to even out the costs.
12-26-2013, 04:08 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: Fifth floor, window
Posts: 290
Many, regional airlines can't seem to fill their classes. Some offer signing bonuses. This does not indicate a classic supply and demand situation.
As far as pilots managing to rectify the pay situation...
Is it possible that regional pilots who go to mainline carriers will speak up in contract negotiating and say we should take a 3 percent pay raise instead of the 5 percent offered so that it can (somehow, just making a hypothetical argument) go towards where they just came from, the truly needy, their remaining pals at the regionals? It's possible, but everyone knows it won't happen. Talk about ridicule and being shunned. Instead they will settle in for their share of the pie and be glad they are out of the regional world, for they know they are a lucky minority.
And therein is a vital component to the brilliant pyramid scheme that airline flying has become.
As far as real poverty not applying to regional pilots does anyone think living in plywood bunk beds at a crash pad isn't poverty? Really?
As far as pilots managing to rectify the pay situation...
Is it possible that regional pilots who go to mainline carriers will speak up in contract negotiating and say we should take a 3 percent pay raise instead of the 5 percent offered so that it can (somehow, just making a hypothetical argument) go towards where they just came from, the truly needy, their remaining pals at the regionals? It's possible, but everyone knows it won't happen. Talk about ridicule and being shunned. Instead they will settle in for their share of the pie and be glad they are out of the regional world, for they know they are a lucky minority.
And therein is a vital component to the brilliant pyramid scheme that airline flying has become.
As far as real poverty not applying to regional pilots does anyone think living in plywood bunk beds at a crash pad isn't poverty? Really?
12-26-2013, 06:18 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 191
See, regional airlines bid on their work with legacy airlines with the knowledge that they will always have a steady supply of fresh new pilots willing to work for peanuts. Historically, it has worked. Face it, they are doing their job - providing the contractual feeder lift at the lowest possible cost. Any successful company, and I'm defining 'successful' company as the one that provides the highest return to its owners/shareholders/investors, is the one that always strives to reduce cost and expense wherever possible, increase profit/return for the owners/shareholders/investors and getting the job done as contracted. Squeezing you is doing their job.
This will change when regional airlines can no longer find people willing to work for those wages for whatever reason (banks not providing loans, people not wanting to fly for 20k a year, etc.), and when their business suffers because of it.
The sooner you realize that this is a business, and business decisions are ruthless and leave very little room for compassion, the better off you'll be and the better equipped you'll be to counter it. Until then… you made your bed…
This will change when regional airlines can no longer find people willing to work for those wages for whatever reason (banks not providing loans, people not wanting to fly for 20k a year, etc.), and when their business suffers because of it.
The sooner you realize that this is a business, and business decisions are ruthless and leave very little room for compassion, the better off you'll be and the better equipped you'll be to counter it. Until then… you made your bed…
It's the elephant in the room, and does not seem to be subject to change until the wheels come off- and they are definitely wobbling.
Question is- what will change ? How ? When ?
12-26-2013, 07:58 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 4,026
Yep. Raising pay is the absolute last thing they'd do. Not that they wouldn't, but it would be after exhausting every other measure, and even then I'm sure a good percentage of the airlines would "take their ball and go home", allowing themselves to be absorbed/merged into other airlines (and then downsized). It's not impossible to get the pay raised mind you, but it takes an effort where one doesn't care about the consequences, RLA effects, etc. Most pilots want ALPA or some other union to do something on their own, without striking, etc. Pilots will never have the leverage (unless they just rise up and take it some day). Kids are still being sold on the idea that you'll only have to spend 1-2 years at a regional and then it's "widebody time!".
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