No Voters
#41
While Inc. is a well-run company and I have nothing against Skywest pilots...
Skywest pilots were the first to fly 70 seat jets for 50 seat pay.
Skywest forced their pilots into a HDHP, while ASA/XJT pilots were not due to their CBAs.
Skywest pilots got their biggest raises over the last decade when union talk was strongest, or following contractual gains at peer groups like ASA.
Your company has grown significantly, but its not been in a vacuum...
Skywest pilots were the first to fly 70 seat jets for 50 seat pay.
Skywest forced their pilots into a HDHP, while ASA/XJT pilots were not due to their CBAs.
Skywest pilots got their biggest raises over the last decade when union talk was strongest, or following contractual gains at peer groups like ASA.
Your company has grown significantly, but its not been in a vacuum...
#42
Originally Posted by TMoney
As for the 70 seat for 50 seat rates are you referring to the Block Hour Override system in place?
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,150
An airline can get new, better equipment on the property without taking a concessionary contract. This idea that the only options were to take the contract or lose the job is outrageous. All airlines have shifted fleet types. SkyWest used to fly nothing but Metroliners. Now they are all gone and our pay scales went up with the addition of Brazilias and now Rjs. They didn't have to reduce the caps on pay rates to 4 and 12 years. They didn't have to raise the health care costs of their employees to do so.
The US Airways group could be happy to give the 175s to their wholly owned regional airlines and also increase the pay scales and share in the massive profits we are starting to see. They could give a performance bonus to the employees on a quarterly basis based upon our profits. They could have offered to pick up the tab for a portion of the employee's health benefits to say thanks for working hard to keep flights operating safely and efficiently through the bankruptcy. If you were the head of US Airways group and you had that 409 million profit for a quarter, what kind of a deal would you approach your employee group with? They did nothing to help share the wealth!!! They are keeping all the money. Worse, they are asking more from the individual. How can anyone be happy with someone willing to give from the poor to the rich??
I know that saying "I'd just quit if my company was that corrupt" is too sweeping a statement. It's a complicated issue and with seniority it is very tough to just quit. That is the point of a union. If I knew that my management was that greedy, I would go straight to my union and tell them to represent us and stick it to management. I would fight back. The yes voters have done no such thing. The union has done no such thing. They all bent over to willingly take it. How does anyone not see this???
The unknown consequences of a no vote could be that nobody agrees to a reduction in pay. Imagine for a second that the Stop The Whipsaw movement gets supported by every regional pilot. Every single one. Every contract sent to any of us that doesn't give us a share of the current profits is rejected. The airlines will be forced to come up with a contract that does have profit sharing or pay raises so that they can get pilots to fly these planes at all. They need these planes flown worse than we need pay cuts. I know it's a lofty and idyllic idea but it's one worth pursuing.
If the PSA pilots came to the STW movement and said we will vote no but we are nervous that the US Airways group will shut us down, we could work together to pressure them to making sure that doesn't happen. Or forcing a contract that requires PSA pilots to be absorbed into Piedmont or Eagle at their previous rates. This is all purely hypothetical and I'm sure I'll hear some abuse about how ridiculous it sounds but it's not entirely out of the question. Pilots are such a specialized labor force that we can hold the power. We can push back at management to stop this whipsaw.
Eagle was supposed to get your airplanes. You stole them from Eagle. You Yes voters need to try to find another way to work with management to stay competitive. There are other options than whipsawing other pilots just like you who are at a different company. You should be ashamed of voting Yes during profitable times. The MECs should be ashamed of letting this get past them to the pilots. I'm glad to see so many pilots speaking out against the Yes voters so they can feel the consequences of their actions. It can be done without name calling or jumpseat wars, however. Reasoned facts and statistics can be used to make that argument. Hopefully we can all band together to make sure this never happens at another regional airline.
The US Airways group could be happy to give the 175s to their wholly owned regional airlines and also increase the pay scales and share in the massive profits we are starting to see. They could give a performance bonus to the employees on a quarterly basis based upon our profits. They could have offered to pick up the tab for a portion of the employee's health benefits to say thanks for working hard to keep flights operating safely and efficiently through the bankruptcy. If you were the head of US Airways group and you had that 409 million profit for a quarter, what kind of a deal would you approach your employee group with? They did nothing to help share the wealth!!! They are keeping all the money. Worse, they are asking more from the individual. How can anyone be happy with someone willing to give from the poor to the rich??
I know that saying "I'd just quit if my company was that corrupt" is too sweeping a statement. It's a complicated issue and with seniority it is very tough to just quit. That is the point of a union. If I knew that my management was that greedy, I would go straight to my union and tell them to represent us and stick it to management. I would fight back. The yes voters have done no such thing. The union has done no such thing. They all bent over to willingly take it. How does anyone not see this???
The unknown consequences of a no vote could be that nobody agrees to a reduction in pay. Imagine for a second that the Stop The Whipsaw movement gets supported by every regional pilot. Every single one. Every contract sent to any of us that doesn't give us a share of the current profits is rejected. The airlines will be forced to come up with a contract that does have profit sharing or pay raises so that they can get pilots to fly these planes at all. They need these planes flown worse than we need pay cuts. I know it's a lofty and idyllic idea but it's one worth pursuing.
If the PSA pilots came to the STW movement and said we will vote no but we are nervous that the US Airways group will shut us down, we could work together to pressure them to making sure that doesn't happen. Or forcing a contract that requires PSA pilots to be absorbed into Piedmont or Eagle at their previous rates. This is all purely hypothetical and I'm sure I'll hear some abuse about how ridiculous it sounds but it's not entirely out of the question. Pilots are such a specialized labor force that we can hold the power. We can push back at management to stop this whipsaw.
Eagle was supposed to get your airplanes. You stole them from Eagle. You Yes voters need to try to find another way to work with management to stay competitive. There are other options than whipsawing other pilots just like you who are at a different company. You should be ashamed of voting Yes during profitable times. The MECs should be ashamed of letting this get past them to the pilots. I'm glad to see so many pilots speaking out against the Yes voters so they can feel the consequences of their actions. It can be done without name calling or jumpseat wars, however. Reasoned facts and statistics can be used to make that argument. Hopefully we can all band together to make sure this never happens at another regional airline.
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 468
While you are correct for saying that originally it was mainline flying, that was years ago. Since then flying has been given to regionals and in the case of AMR it was exclusively Eagle (excluding CHQ and many more years ago all the other that formed into Eagle). AMR was a holding company that consisted of AA, Eagle, and several dozens if not more of other companies. All went into BK, and Eagle negotiated with the "understanding" that all concessions would be in order to "secure future large RJ orders." Was it in writing?...unfortunately no.
Along comes a merger (while the ENTIRE time upper AMR management was dead set on going it alone until their hand was forced) and new bosses come to town. They evaluate the Delta and Pinnacle deal and say that regardless of what was told to Eagle, that it is not competitive anymore. US Airways management comes back to Eagle and try's to get a B scale or some other kind of concessions (a video of a conference can be found somewhere of managements own words regarding this). This was already after a BK concessionary deal was signed.
Eagle holds the line, (regardless of who started such B scale talks and he-said-she-said) so they go to PSA. PSA caves like a spineless wimp against a big bully. PSA degrades the industry and embarresses themselves in the meantime. All respect is now lost for PSA, which is unfortunate for all you NO voters.
This is not an exact timeline but you get the gist.
So to make a long story short, the flying WAS taken from a wholly owned AA AND Eagle. While I would love ALL flying to be done by mainline ONLY, it SHOULD have at least stayed in house at Eagle and a crap deal was made to potentially give to PSA.
Fire away.
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 468
And just so there's no confusion and someone jumps on here and says something stupid about Eagle's former LAX flying and CRJ200's in DFW. AMR made it VERY clear that they wanted to diversify some of their regional flying REGARDLESS of Eagle's cost point. The BK deal was supposed to allow eagle to still hold the majority of the regional feed while still diversifying some areas.
While it was a serious blow to morale by closing LAX, there was no intention to outright give bidding for the majority of the flying like they are doing now.
This was the job of new management in light of the Pinnacle fiasco.
So your outright assumption that ALL the flying was up for bid it totally incorrect. Eagle signed a BK deal with the impression that it would allow them to secure that flying that is not being given away.
While it was a serious blow to morale by closing LAX, there was no intention to outright give bidding for the majority of the flying like they are doing now.
This was the job of new management in light of the Pinnacle fiasco.
So your outright assumption that ALL the flying was up for bid it totally incorrect. Eagle signed a BK deal with the impression that it would allow them to secure that flying that is not being given away.
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: Jets and Props
Posts: 188
Never been an airline guy so unaware of how this works. Can you not vote as a 1st year employee (assuming that means you're still on probation)? Do you still operate under the rules of the CBA that everyone else uses or is there a different section for 1st year employees? Do you still pay dues?
#48
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 56
Guys I am not happy about psa contract like the rest but being cruel to pilots for there choices is no better. When you get wronged sometimes the best way is to show kindness. If this psa deal leads to guys loosing jobs I will do my part to help guys get jobs at as many airlines as I can. If we want to be unified now is the time and we do that with respect and kindness. That is my 2 cents.
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 781
Can we be honest here? Had the eagle MEC decided to let the eagle pilots vote for their crap sandwich, do you really think the majority would've voted no? Last time AA went to eagle for concessions, I think you guys ratified it by mid 80% and now you guys are almighty because your MEC did the right thing and turned it down?? Despite the fact that it was your MEC chair that went to airways with b scale to try and get a guarantee for a flow to airways side as well by selling out new hires? Our no voters lost the war but 6-4 loss is better than 8.5-1.5. Talk about caving. Give me a break
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,920
Changes to health insurance. Not sure how much it will be going up though. Pay caps. F/O's at year 4 ($39.50/hr I think), CA's at year 12 ($90.00 ish). Must apply and interview at the new AA, or have your pay frozen at current longevity (continue to receive contractual raises through 2017). Anyone between year 12-18 now will not get longevity pay increases from current rate, only contractual raises. It's basically a B-scale for anyone who is not at year 18 pay already ($99/hr).
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