ALPA's Race to the Bottom
09-27-2013, 11:50 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: 717 Sidekick
Posts: 162
It's sad that a pilot group that's making money would accept concessions. What's going to happen when the airline is losing money? How are they gonna say no to concessions? At that point, I'd argue that they deserve it...we'll the yes voters anyway. Sad that the sensible 39% of PSA pilots have to accept this crap.
Ladies please,
Seriously can we please agree ALPA is a complete conflict of interest here ? Brothers and sisters at Expressjet Skywest and Republic. Please stay strong. Look at your numbers know what you are worth. If mother delta calls me tomorrow great, till then ill work hard to leave this a better place I found it.
Kudos to our friends at eagle.
Seriously can we please agree ALPA is a complete conflict of interest here ? Brothers and sisters at Expressjet Skywest and Republic. Please stay strong. Look at your numbers know what you are worth. If mother delta calls me tomorrow great, till then ill work hard to leave this a better place I found it.
Kudos to our friends at eagle.
09-28-2013, 04:32 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Union Facts : How To Decertify Your Union
HOW TO DECERTIFY YOUR UNION
Sample Decertification Forms
PDF Document
Word Document
Employees who no longer want a union to represent them — whether it's because the union is undemocratic, corrupt, violent, or just plain inept — are entitled to seek an election to determine if a majority of their coworkers want to drop the union. Such elections, which are conducted by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), are known as “decertification elections.”
Employees who want to vote a union out must circulate a petition calling for a decertification election. A sample petition is available below. They should not seek help from their employer, because the union can then complain that an unfair labor practice has tainted the election. Employees may take advantage of outside assistance, though. Signatures should be collected on non-work time and in non-work areas. It is important that the names of the union and the company be filled in before any signatures are collected.
It doesn't matter why the employees are dissatisfied. But there are some timing issues that are important. The NLRB has a rule that a new union is given one year to represent the workers before a decertification election can be held. Unions that have already negotiated a contract for employees can usually be subjected to a decertification election near the expiration of the contract. Therefore, workers with an old union should start their decertification drive a few months prior to the expiration of their contract to be sure they don't miss their window of opportunity.
If at least 30 percent of the workers in the bargaining unit sign the petition, then it must be sent to the NLRB's closest regional office, along with a cover sheet, NLRB Form 502. Once the petitions have been received and validated, the NLRB will set a date for the decertification election, usually about 60 days in the future. Individuals on both sides may campaign to sway the employees. When the vote is held, if a majority of the workers who participate favor decertifying the union, or if the vote results in a tie, then the NLRB will officially remove the union's recognition as the bargaining representative of the workers.
HOW TO DECERTIFY YOUR UNION
Sample Decertification Forms
PDF Document
Word Document
Employees who no longer want a union to represent them — whether it's because the union is undemocratic, corrupt, violent, or just plain inept — are entitled to seek an election to determine if a majority of their coworkers want to drop the union. Such elections, which are conducted by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), are known as “decertification elections.”
Employees who want to vote a union out must circulate a petition calling for a decertification election. A sample petition is available below. They should not seek help from their employer, because the union can then complain that an unfair labor practice has tainted the election. Employees may take advantage of outside assistance, though. Signatures should be collected on non-work time and in non-work areas. It is important that the names of the union and the company be filled in before any signatures are collected.
It doesn't matter why the employees are dissatisfied. But there are some timing issues that are important. The NLRB has a rule that a new union is given one year to represent the workers before a decertification election can be held. Unions that have already negotiated a contract for employees can usually be subjected to a decertification election near the expiration of the contract. Therefore, workers with an old union should start their decertification drive a few months prior to the expiration of their contract to be sure they don't miss their window of opportunity.
If at least 30 percent of the workers in the bargaining unit sign the petition, then it must be sent to the NLRB's closest regional office, along with a cover sheet, NLRB Form 502. Once the petitions have been received and validated, the NLRB will set a date for the decertification election, usually about 60 days in the future. Individuals on both sides may campaign to sway the employees. When the vote is held, if a majority of the workers who participate favor decertifying the union, or if the vote results in a tie, then the NLRB will officially remove the union's recognition as the bargaining representative of the workers.
Ours takes 50% and is not a decertification, it is a replacement.
you essentially need 50%+1 to sign cards for who you want to replace your current bargaining agent. So, if you are ALPA, you'd sign cards for Teamsters or whomever... if you wanted no union representation, you'd pick a single pilot at your company and designate him/her as your rep.
09-28-2013, 05:31 AM
#23
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
It's amazing just how far down an organization can fall. Back in the days when the "Flying the Line" series of books was published by ALPA chronicling the fight of airline pilots to gain and maintain respectability and fair compensation as well as the strategies used, ALPA stood for something........or at the very least gave that impression.
Now, after Moaks Letter..............actually his REVELATION, it's clear the entire regional pilot industry MUST seperate itself from this hopelessly irrelevent and now pointless entity. It's clear that not only has ALPA become simply the flip side of the same coin as the traditional pilots adversary, their impending financial state is headed for disaster and ultimately, it will be their pilots that will fott the bill. They've been sued multiple times for DFR faliure and have previously settled out of court under a veil of secrecy that other corporations use, they've disregarded the very principles they claim to espouse when dealing with their own labor and now soon could be bankrupted by the latest in their series of FALIURE to represent their pilots (TWA).
Given all that, it seems clear that ALPA has simply become a entity solely concerned with circling their financial wagons and that is likely a major reason why they have little interest in expending financial resources for regional pilots. Before Moak's letter to the PSA pilots, the same basic message of capitulation was communicated to the Eagle pilots. If you are a regional and ALPA, you really are represented by a ghost.
An expensive ghost, but a ghost.
Now, after Moaks Letter..............actually his REVELATION, it's clear the entire regional pilot industry MUST seperate itself from this hopelessly irrelevent and now pointless entity. It's clear that not only has ALPA become simply the flip side of the same coin as the traditional pilots adversary, their impending financial state is headed for disaster and ultimately, it will be their pilots that will fott the bill. They've been sued multiple times for DFR faliure and have previously settled out of court under a veil of secrecy that other corporations use, they've disregarded the very principles they claim to espouse when dealing with their own labor and now soon could be bankrupted by the latest in their series of FALIURE to represent their pilots (TWA).
Given all that, it seems clear that ALPA has simply become a entity solely concerned with circling their financial wagons and that is likely a major reason why they have little interest in expending financial resources for regional pilots. Before Moak's letter to the PSA pilots, the same basic message of capitulation was communicated to the Eagle pilots. If you are a regional and ALPA, you really are represented by a ghost.
An expensive ghost, but a ghost.
09-30-2013, 06:53 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 158
It's amazing just how far down an organization can fall. Back in the days when the "Flying the Line" series of books was published by ALPA chronicling the fight of airline pilots to gain and maintain respectability and fair compensation as well as the strategies used, ALPA stood for something........or at the very least gave that impression.
Now, after Moaks Letter..............actually his REVELATION, it's clear the entire regional pilot industry MUST seperate itself from this hopelessly irrelevent and now pointless entity. It's clear that not only has ALPA become simply the flip side of the same coin as the traditional pilots adversary, their impending financial state is headed for disaster and ultimately, it will be their pilots that will fott the bill. They've been sued multiple times for DFR faliure and have previously settled out of court under a veil of secrecy that other corporations use, they've disregarded the very principles they claim to espouse when dealing with their own labor and now soon could be bankrupted by the latest in their series of FALIURE to represent their pilots (TWA).
Given all that, it seems clear that ALPA has simply become a entity solely concerned with circling their financial wagons and that is likely a major reason why they have little interest in expending financial resources for regional pilots. Before Moak's letter to the PSA pilots, the same basic message of capitulation was communicated to the Eagle pilots. If you are a regional and ALPA, you really are represented by a ghost.
An expensive ghost, but a ghost.
Now, after Moaks Letter..............actually his REVELATION, it's clear the entire regional pilot industry MUST seperate itself from this hopelessly irrelevent and now pointless entity. It's clear that not only has ALPA become simply the flip side of the same coin as the traditional pilots adversary, their impending financial state is headed for disaster and ultimately, it will be their pilots that will fott the bill. They've been sued multiple times for DFR faliure and have previously settled out of court under a veil of secrecy that other corporations use, they've disregarded the very principles they claim to espouse when dealing with their own labor and now soon could be bankrupted by the latest in their series of FALIURE to represent their pilots (TWA).
Given all that, it seems clear that ALPA has simply become a entity solely concerned with circling their financial wagons and that is likely a major reason why they have little interest in expending financial resources for regional pilots. Before Moak's letter to the PSA pilots, the same basic message of capitulation was communicated to the Eagle pilots. If you are a regional and ALPA, you really are represented by a ghost.
An expensive ghost, but a ghost.
Very well said. I haven't always agreed with you in the past, and wasn't on board with all of your negativity towards ALPA, but it turns out you've been 100 percent right on this. ALPA has got to go. I don't want to give another f*cking dime to those worthless pieces of ****. I'm done with them.
10-02-2013, 04:35 AM
#27
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 94
on the NMB by Teamsters National to move toward
release. However I was an ALPA member at a
National airline and our pilot group was sold out by Lee
Moak. Is there a third option?
10-02-2013, 06:30 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 238
Maybe I'm incorrect, but I thought one could be part of any union. It might make the most sense to start a regional airline pilot union from the ground up though, in order to tailor a constitution and by-laws to help avoid the issues we've seen with ALPA. Above all, most every regional would have to be on board with this, otherwise, the bottom feeders will continue to do what they do best.
10-02-2013, 06:42 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 320
Posts: 709
Maybe we are all looking at this the wrong way. Maybe if we make pay so bad for ourselves maybe now one will become a pilot. So in 10 years there will actually be a pilot shortage and Mainline will have to take all the large RJ's Back because they are the only airlines to attract pilots. Maybe National ALPA has a long term game plan, that is to let management screw us over so bad no one will want to do this job.
For those who do not have a sarcasm detector or it is deferred I am being sarcastic. Although they might unintentionally doing this.
For those who do not have a sarcasm detector or it is deferred I am being sarcastic. Although they might unintentionally doing this.
10-03-2013, 08:56 AM
#30
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 58
Sounds like how negotiations went with ALPA at Piedmont. After about 4 years, and very little headway, they wouldn't release us either. Nothing like giving all leverage to management.
Maybe I'm incorrect, but I thought one could be part of any union. It might make the most sense to start a regional airline pilot union from the ground up though, in order to tailor a constitution and by-laws to help avoid the issues we've seen with ALPA. Above all, most every regional would have to be on board with this, otherwise, the bottom feeders will continue to do what they do best.
Maybe I'm incorrect, but I thought one could be part of any union. It might make the most sense to start a regional airline pilot union from the ground up though, in order to tailor a constitution and by-laws to help avoid the issues we've seen with ALPA. Above all, most every regional would have to be on board with this, otherwise, the bottom feeders will continue to do what they do best.
It will, however, require Congress to repeal the RLA, but it seems the RLA has outlived it's usefullness, and is now more of a hinderence.
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