Concessions - Concessions - Concessions
08-11-2013, 03:25 PM
#1
Gets EVERY weekend off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: SIC
Posts: 1,367
Concessions - Concessions - Concessions
As I've done a bunch reading on here recently I've heard a lot about concessions to secure more flying. I know it's just more typical "You're paid to much" but it really seems odd considering the gathering clouds on finding additional pilots.
1. We have the 1500 hour / ATP rule. The regional airlines will be struggling and competing like crazy just to attract enough qualified pilots.
2. Age 65 retirements are finally starting. I've looked at the numbers some, and they're pretty gradual, but expect thousands of retirements over the next 10 years.
3. The pay (at least on the entry end) is incredibly low, and demand for regional feed from major airlines seems to be holding pretty steady.
So all in all, with these items in alignment it seems odd to hear any word of concessions...even more odd that Pinnacle pilots voted in concessions to secure additional flying.
When we consider that fast food workers are fighting for a minimum wage increase to $15/hr, what in the world is wrong with airline union representation to entertain or worse accept concessionary contracts when all the bargaining chips are sitting on their side of the table?
I understand the RLA - but airline pilots are not federal employees working with the DOT. I'm just trying to figure out what everyone's perceptions are here in the regional forum...I think you guys are in a heck of a position right now, considerably better postured than a few years earlier...just need to get the representation onboard! Opinions?
1. We have the 1500 hour / ATP rule. The regional airlines will be struggling and competing like crazy just to attract enough qualified pilots.
2. Age 65 retirements are finally starting. I've looked at the numbers some, and they're pretty gradual, but expect thousands of retirements over the next 10 years.
3. The pay (at least on the entry end) is incredibly low, and demand for regional feed from major airlines seems to be holding pretty steady.
So all in all, with these items in alignment it seems odd to hear any word of concessions...even more odd that Pinnacle pilots voted in concessions to secure additional flying.
When we consider that fast food workers are fighting for a minimum wage increase to $15/hr, what in the world is wrong with airline union representation to entertain or worse accept concessionary contracts when all the bargaining chips are sitting on their side of the table?
I understand the RLA - but airline pilots are not federal employees working with the DOT. I'm just trying to figure out what everyone's perceptions are here in the regional forum...I think you guys are in a heck of a position right now, considerably better postured than a few years earlier...just need to get the representation onboard! Opinions?
08-11-2013, 03:40 PM
#2
Does NOT get weekends off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: ERJ - 145
Posts: 1,631
As I've done a bunch reading on here recently I've heard a lot about concessions to secure more flying. I know it's just more typical "You're paid to much" but it really seems odd considering the gathering clouds on finding additional pilots.
1. We have the 1500 hour / ATP rule. The regional airlines will be struggling and competing like crazy just to attract enough qualified pilots.
2. Age 65 retirements are finally starting. I've looked at the numbers some, and they're pretty gradual, but expect thousands of retirements over the next 10 years.
3. The pay (at least on the entry end) is incredibly low, and demand for regional feed from major airlines seems to be holding pretty steady.
So all in all, with these items in alignment it seems odd to hear any word of concessions...even more odd that Pinnacle pilots voted in concessions to secure additional flying.
When we consider that fast food workers are fighting for a minimum wage increase to $15/hr, what in the world is wrong with airline union representation to entertain or worse accept concessionary contracts when all the bargaining chips are sitting on their side of the table?
I understand the RLA - but airline pilots are not federal employees working with the DOT. I'm just trying to figure out what everyone's perceptions are here in the regional forum...I think you guys are in a heck of a position right now, considerably better postured than a few years earlier...just need to get the representation onboard! Opinions?
1. We have the 1500 hour / ATP rule. The regional airlines will be struggling and competing like crazy just to attract enough qualified pilots.
2. Age 65 retirements are finally starting. I've looked at the numbers some, and they're pretty gradual, but expect thousands of retirements over the next 10 years.
3. The pay (at least on the entry end) is incredibly low, and demand for regional feed from major airlines seems to be holding pretty steady.
So all in all, with these items in alignment it seems odd to hear any word of concessions...even more odd that Pinnacle pilots voted in concessions to secure additional flying.
When we consider that fast food workers are fighting for a minimum wage increase to $15/hr, what in the world is wrong with airline union representation to entertain or worse accept concessionary contracts when all the bargaining chips are sitting on their side of the table?
I understand the RLA - but airline pilots are not federal employees working with the DOT. I'm just trying to figure out what everyone's perceptions are here in the regional forum...I think you guys are in a heck of a position right now, considerably better postured than a few years earlier...just need to get the representation onboard! Opinions?
Age 65 but it still will be a little bit before we really start feeling the effects of that.
Regional feed is probably shrinking due to the removal of 50 seat flying. Instead of 3 or 4 trips in a CRJ-200/ERJ145, it is now probably 1 or 2 in a E175/CRJ900. This means that the regionals are shrinking.
What I am getting at is NOT "RJ Pilot" doom and gloom (if you know the tool, you know who I am talking about) - but we are seeing both positive and negative signs of movement resulting in stagnation or even reversal. What I see possible is that the management folks see this and are (hopefully) scared. They want to secure as many concessions and leverage as possible before they lose the advantage they have had.
Or I could have absolutely NO idea what I am talking about and should just go back to flying the plane... which is quite possible
08-11-2013, 03:56 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
As I've done a bunch reading on here recently I've heard a lot about concessions to secure more flying. I know it's just more typical "You're paid to much" but it really seems odd considering the gathering clouds on finding additional pilots.
1. We have the 1500 hour / ATP rule. The regional airlines will be struggling and competing like crazy just to attract enough qualified pilots.
2. Age 65 retirements are finally starting. I've looked at the numbers some, and they're pretty gradual, but expect thousands of retirements over the next 10 years.
3. The pay (at least on the entry end) is incredibly low, and demand for regional feed from major airlines seems to be holding pretty steady.
So all in all, with these items in alignment it seems odd to hear any word of concessions...even more odd that Pinnacle pilots voted in concessions to secure additional flying.
When we consider that fast food workers are fighting for a minimum wage increase to $15/hr, what in the world is wrong with airline union representation to entertain or worse accept concessionary contracts when all the bargaining chips are sitting on their side of the table?
I understand the RLA - but airline pilots are not federal employees working with the DOT. I'm just trying to figure out what everyone's perceptions are here in the regional forum...I think you guys are in a heck of a position right now, considerably better postured than a few years earlier...just need to get the representation onboard! Opinions?
1. We have the 1500 hour / ATP rule. The regional airlines will be struggling and competing like crazy just to attract enough qualified pilots.
2. Age 65 retirements are finally starting. I've looked at the numbers some, and they're pretty gradual, but expect thousands of retirements over the next 10 years.
3. The pay (at least on the entry end) is incredibly low, and demand for regional feed from major airlines seems to be holding pretty steady.
So all in all, with these items in alignment it seems odd to hear any word of concessions...even more odd that Pinnacle pilots voted in concessions to secure additional flying.
When we consider that fast food workers are fighting for a minimum wage increase to $15/hr, what in the world is wrong with airline union representation to entertain or worse accept concessionary contracts when all the bargaining chips are sitting on their side of the table?
I understand the RLA - but airline pilots are not federal employees working with the DOT. I'm just trying to figure out what everyone's perceptions are here in the regional forum...I think you guys are in a heck of a position right now, considerably better postured than a few years earlier...just need to get the representation onboard! Opinions?
The pay, working conditions, QOL, and union on property seemed to be much better.
08-11-2013, 04:01 PM
#5
Gets EVERY weekend off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: SIC
Posts: 1,367
LoL...Yes, i'd agree. Normally "illegal work actions" are brought up, and the reference made is the controller strike in the early 1980's, but sadly that doesn't really seem to be a valid point. Least not in my half-shut eyes.
08-11-2013, 07:55 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 426
There's no shortage of pilots at any level. If there were the market would adjust and pay more. Let's not pretend unions have any leverage.
08-11-2013, 08:08 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
Well that is good, then we would be properly staffed. Take them all, all in one day would be fine with me. Then let aa get it where the sun dont shine.
08-12-2013, 11:17 AM
#8
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Give it another 18-24 months.
08-12-2013, 12:21 PM
#9
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Posts: 404
As I've done a bunch reading on here recently I've heard a lot about concessions to secure more flying. I know it's just more typical "You're paid to much" but it really seems odd considering the gathering clouds on finding additional pilots.
1. We have the 1500 hour / ATP rule. The regional airlines will be struggling and competing like crazy just to attract enough qualified pilots.
2. Age 65 retirements are finally starting. I've looked at the numbers some, and they're pretty gradual, but expect thousands of retirements over the next 10 years.
3. The pay (at least on the entry end) is incredibly low, and demand for regional feed from major airlines seems to be holding pretty steady.
So all in all, with these items in alignment it seems odd to hear any word of concessions...even more odd that Pinnacle pilots voted in concessions to secure additional flying.
When we consider that fast food workers are fighting for a minimum wage increase to $15/hr, what in the world is wrong with airline union representation to entertain or worse accept concessionary contracts when all the bargaining chips are sitting on their side of the table?
I understand the RLA - but airline pilots are not federal employees working with the DOT. I'm just trying to figure out what everyone's perceptions are here in the regional forum...I think you guys are in a heck of a position right now, considerably better postured than a few years earlier...just need to get the representation onboard! Opinions?
1. We have the 1500 hour / ATP rule. The regional airlines will be struggling and competing like crazy just to attract enough qualified pilots.
2. Age 65 retirements are finally starting. I've looked at the numbers some, and they're pretty gradual, but expect thousands of retirements over the next 10 years.
3. The pay (at least on the entry end) is incredibly low, and demand for regional feed from major airlines seems to be holding pretty steady.
So all in all, with these items in alignment it seems odd to hear any word of concessions...even more odd that Pinnacle pilots voted in concessions to secure additional flying.
When we consider that fast food workers are fighting for a minimum wage increase to $15/hr, what in the world is wrong with airline union representation to entertain or worse accept concessionary contracts when all the bargaining chips are sitting on their side of the table?
I understand the RLA - but airline pilots are not federal employees working with the DOT. I'm just trying to figure out what everyone's perceptions are here in the regional forum...I think you guys are in a heck of a position right now, considerably better postured than a few years earlier...just need to get the representation onboard! Opinions?
If fast food workers had the equivalent of the ERJ 170 series (ie: a grill top or deep fryer with jet engines underneath it's wings) they would be asking for concessions in order to cook on such an awesome piece of restaurant equipment.
08-12-2013, 12:49 PM
#10
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
There IS a shortage at the regional new-hire level and the numbers achieved aren't anywhere near those requested. Most regionals are getting 15-30% of the pilots they need. Now if regionals shrink by 60% like your above example, then there won't be a shortage for awhile, but once the legacies, LCC's and other next move carriers start hiring, even a 60% contraction will be impossible to staff.
Give it another 18-24 months.
Give it another 18-24 months.
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