Pinnacle
04-25-2013, 05:19 AM
#311
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 119
Any of you guys happen to catch Richard Anderson's excitement in the Q1 2013 Investor's call about Pinnacle?
We old timers have heard it before ... from Fred Reid and Leo Mullin about Comair, 14 years ago and candidly, Comair had a hell of a run until they mistakenly thought they were real airline pilots and struck without any brand or scope. They finally achieved some measure of scope, but when it expired they died as a result of longevity costs and gross mismanagement by Delta. My favorite comment by a reporter was "Comair was a multi Billion dollar company, then Delta bought them."
Richard Anderson (and perhaps more importantly Ed Bastian & Mike Campbell) would have reason to be emboldened by the National Mediation Board determination that GoJets was not a single transportation system simply because they operated different airplanes to get around a scope clause. For according to some rumors that is exactly how Delta intends to operate Pinnacle, just as GoJets is to Trans States.
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2006/33n009.pdf
All in, it was a better deal for GoJets than Trans States, as management picked "the best deal."
ALPA and Delta pilots were complete morons to allow multiple pilot groups to sit down and do competing deals with one management team.
Back in the salad days of Comair and ASA I always thought "man this is ugly, I am surprised Delta pilots do not want to resolve this with a single list." Once again, I have the same thought.
However, international problems and stories about RJ's being "last decade's problem" are used to distract the membership from whatever effect a group of pilots operating airplanes better than the mainline narrow body fleet* working for less pay might have on mainline negotiations.
So, what does mainline trade in 2015?
We old timers have heard it before ... from Fred Reid and Leo Mullin about Comair, 14 years ago and candidly, Comair had a hell of a run until they mistakenly thought they were real airline pilots and struck without any brand or scope. They finally achieved some measure of scope, but when it expired they died as a result of longevity costs and gross mismanagement by Delta. My favorite comment by a reporter was "Comair was a multi Billion dollar company, then Delta bought them."
Richard Anderson (and perhaps more importantly Ed Bastian & Mike Campbell) would have reason to be emboldened by the National Mediation Board determination that GoJets was not a single transportation system simply because they operated different airplanes to get around a scope clause. For according to some rumors that is exactly how Delta intends to operate Pinnacle, just as GoJets is to Trans States.
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2006/33n009.pdf
All in, it was a better deal for GoJets than Trans States, as management picked "the best deal."
ALPA and Delta pilots were complete morons to allow multiple pilot groups to sit down and do competing deals with one management team.
Back in the salad days of Comair and ASA I always thought "man this is ugly, I am surprised Delta pilots do not want to resolve this with a single list." Once again, I have the same thought.
However, international problems and stories about RJ's being "last decade's problem" are used to distract the membership from whatever effect a group of pilots operating airplanes better than the mainline narrow body fleet* working for less pay might have on mainline negotiations.
So, what does mainline trade in 2015?
04-25-2013, 05:32 AM
#312
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Delta orders up to 70 Bombardier regional jets | Business & Technology | The Seattle Times
Which is why the threatened shut down was just a dog n pony show.
Which is why the threatened shut down was just a dog n pony show.
04-25-2013, 05:39 AM
#313
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 3,044
I guess I don't count the Capex of RJ's as a Pinnacle expense. Those planes can go to whomever DL chooses. They weren't purchased because of Pinnacle's bankruptcy or contract. They were purchased due to DL getting scope relief or scope tightening (however you want to look at it).
04-25-2013, 07:17 AM
#314
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: MSP CA
Posts: 353
Anyone have the audio from July 2nd 2010, when RA CEO of Delta had a lengthy confrence call about why Delta sold Mesaba and Compass and why owning regionals doesn't make economic sense?
I found this article from 2010 and it makes me wonder what has changed that would make Delta want to own a regional airline?
http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...-compass-30172
I found this article from 2010 and it makes me wonder what has changed that would make Delta want to own a regional airline?
http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...-compass-30172
Last edited by CAPTAINPCL; 04-25-2013 at 07:28 AM.
04-25-2013, 07:28 AM
#315
Underpaid...
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: French-Canadian
Posts: 2,101
Anyone have the audio from July 2nd 2010, when RA CEO of Delta had a lengthy confrence call about why Delta sold Mesaba and Compass and why owning regionals doesn't make economic sense?
I found article from 2010 and it makes me wonder what has changed that would make Delta want to own a regional airline?
Delta contributes to US regional consolidation - selling Mesaba and Compass | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
I found article from 2010 and it makes me wonder what has changed that would make Delta want to own a regional airline?
Delta contributes to US regional consolidation - selling Mesaba and Compass | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
04-25-2013, 07:29 AM
#316
Gets Off to Weekends
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 649
Anyone have the audio from July 2nd 2010, when RA CEO of Delta had a lengthy confrence call about why Delta sold Mesaba and Compass and why owning regionals doesn't make economic sense?
I found article from 2010 and it makes me wonder what has changed that would make Delta want to own a regional airline?
Delta contributes to US regional consolidation - selling Mesaba and Compass | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
I found article from 2010 and it makes me wonder what has changed that would make Delta want to own a regional airline?
Delta contributes to US regional consolidation - selling Mesaba and Compass | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
My guess is nothing has changed. As others have stated, Delta is spinning the situation as a positive move on their part to investors. It is no longer a secret that Pinnacle's sole purpose is to apply downward pressure on other regional contract rates. Is it worth the $70 million investment? Time will tell.
04-25-2013, 07:57 AM
#317
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 174
Anyone have the audio from July 2nd 2010, when RA CEO of Delta had a lengthy confrence call about why Delta sold Mesaba and Compass and why owning regionals doesn't make economic sense?
I found this article from 2010 and it makes me wonder what has changed that would make Delta want to own a regional airline?
Delta contributes to US regional consolidation - selling Mesaba and Compass | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
I found this article from 2010 and it makes me wonder what has changed that would make Delta want to own a regional airline?
Delta contributes to US regional consolidation - selling Mesaba and Compass | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
04-25-2013, 08:49 AM
#318
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: CRJ Captain
Posts: 1,406
If I am interpreting what bar is saying correctly its that now delta is using a regional carrier to put pressure on its own mainline pilots not just its other regionals. Across the pond, klm has a regional called citi hop I believe. They fly emb190s. Pilots with low time are hired right into this low paying airline. When they have the seniority, they move right up to klm with no interview. I think bar is doing something a lot of us don't do and trying to prevent something happening in the future, instead of trying to constantly clean up messes. Just be becuase Richard Anderson or northwest or delta used to destroy regionals build them up and sell them does not automatically mean they will do the same thing with pinnacle
04-25-2013, 09:50 AM
#320
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,049
Pinnacle, or most regionals for that matter are mere puppets, and their mainline partners pull the strings. And if you have'nt noticed, ALPA has less pull these days too. My advice is change these negative energies into positive energies, and use them to get out. And I would'nt recommend making a lateral move to another regional.
A big part of that will be building a critical mass of former regional pilots at mainline carriers; Pilots like us on this board who understand the effect outsourcing has on our profession. Pilots who are willing to recall a few Reps and get active in the union they pay for. Pilots who understand our union is paid for, hour by hour, by the labor of our own hands.
This is not to state that current regional pilots should be excluded. Our strength is in unity. Rome enjoyed it's expansive height of power when it converted others into "Romans." If we are allter egos of one another, competing for the same jobs in the same company then we should put our efforts into getting on the same list under the same MEC so that the negotiators working on our behalf go to our employer with one voice; holding the entire productive capacity of that airline in their hands. That is our best leverage.
Sorry if it is perceived as "negative energy." Web boards are a very useful way to share information and educate people. If I want to know how to fix my computer I start in the forums. If someone wants to know how to fix our union and our profession, maybe they will look here ....
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