rickair7777

I didn't say it was drunk, I said it was against company policy. They don't police our drinking other than to the extent specified by the FAR's. I would say .02 is NOT free from the influence.

Baseless? If you were around long enough it was "obvious" not "baseless". I've heard that YMMV depending on the airline and union leadership, but I can only go with what I experienced. I'm not tying to tell everyone "how it is" but I will relay my own experiences...it should be valuable as a reference point if nothing else.

And yes I know what you described is illegal, but so was a lot of stuff that Jimmy Hoffa did.

Ultralight

Out of interest, what is the exact language in the F.O.M.? Does it specifically say that a B.A.C. greater than 0.2 will result in termination or does it just say disciplinary action?

I have seen language where if you witness someone drinking within the company cut off and don't rat him / her out, you too are subject to termination.

Hell of a situation to be in. Can't say I blame the slam clickers.

rcfd13

I don't believe that. How would they ever prove that I saw someone drinking? I don't see that holding up very well in court if a person really is fired because of it.

USMCFLYR

If you are there with the person drinking?

Ultralight

I quote, "Any employee who observes or is aware of a possible violation of the company alcohol policy is responsible for reporting such activity immediately to their supervisor. Failure to do so will result in disciplinary action up to and including termination."

So if you and I were in the bar at 11pm with a 6am show and I see you order and drink a shot of bourbon, if I don't immediately notify my supervisor, I could lose my job.

Don't shoot the messenger!

block30

I listen to NPR*, what's that make me? A bleedin' heart lefty?




*in addition to consuming news from many other sources.

TeddyKGB

.02 or .04 for that matter is barely a buzz and most people can function fairly normally. On the other hand, being .02 or .04 twelve hours after you put the bottle down then you more than likely drank way too much and are hungover and look, feel & smell really bad.

rcfd13

I understand and in that situation I would be inclined to convince the person to call in sick or I'd report him. I'm just saying it would be hard to fire someone on the basis that they 'may' have seen another crew member drinking.

Bucking Bar

IMHO, more than a couple travel industry employees use alcohol, as a drug, to induce sleep. I can't think of a better "solution" to become, eventually, a raging alcoholic.

The real problem is sleep. Rest is a very genuine psychological need and you'll die without it. Sleep deprivation is real torture.

My employer has a lot of schedules which involve a 17:00'ish duty in for a flight that takes you into 02:00 body clock time. Then the employee is expected to come back to work around 24:00 and fly the leg back home arriving about 08:00 body clock time. There is plenty of time for "rest" but very little real opportunity.

For regional operations, it is common for one set of rotations to do the same, with one trip having late duty outs, followed by first flight of the day operations on the next rotation.

It is easy to fall into the trap that gets professional musicians who work long strange hours; a drug to go to sleep and a drug to wake up. Coffee and Alcohol are legal and readily available.

But alcohol destroys REM sleep. So while it helps you get to sleep in an odd, noisy, place, alcohol does not promote the deep sleep that is needed, so the person needs more sleep and turns to the same drug the following day / night. Our connected World only makes things worse as we get on lap tops and phones during our circadian opportunities for rest.

The airline industry, and regional air lines in particular, think nothing about running pilots to FAR limits of exhaustion only to throw them under the bus when a violation occurs.

Pilots need to full realize their responsibilities and plan accordingly. If scheduled for the impossible, call in fatigued. It sure beats sitting at a long table where every one in attendance has a glass of water, except for you.

If I were hiring for a major carrier one of my questions would be, "how to you manage your rest?" The answer would tell a whole lot about the applicant. Most of the people who do well in this business over the long term exercise while on trips. They try to unplug and they rarely miss an opportunity to sleep.

If they do drink, they typically are the one beer social drinkers who do so very early, so it is out of their system before they need to sleep.

B317

Interesting read, Capt. Johnson had his license revoked by the FAA for not refusing his FO. https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov...8.91-3295.html Note this quote from the judge... "I do think a message should get out that this conspiracy of silence and pilots protecting other pilots has got to stop." ALJ Oral Initial Decision and Order, at 7 (July 1, 1991)