GED = Good Enough for Delta
01-15-2013, 04:44 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
give it a rest copilot....if delta wants to hire a damn fine pilot....it is their choice..they own the place....i am a capt at alaska and dont even have ged.....the worst pilots I have flown with are the und wannabees....the best are just pilots....give it a rest punk.....
01-15-2013, 04:57 AM
#43
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Pilot
Posts: 2,625
give it a rest copilot....if delta wants to hire a damn fine pilot....it is their choice..they own the place....i am a capt at alaska and dont even have ged.....the worst pilots I have flown with are the und wannabees....the best are just pilots....give it a rest punk.....
01-15-2013, 04:58 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 900
I also don't think a 4 year degree makes or breaks a pilot. However, it's listed as a requirement for the job, so that makes it, well, required. If they want to waive it for 9E guys, then they should remove it as a requirement for everyone.
It's there as a "weed out" to reduce the total number of applicantions, much like SWA's 737 type rating. It's not that hard to get a 4 year degree in this day and age. You can get one in underwater basketweaving on-line. It doesn't HAVE to be aviation. I heard plenty of senior MEM guys grumbling about how they'd never get their dream job at FedEx because they didn't have a degree. When I would suggest actually getting the degree so they might get said dream job, you'd think I slapped them in the face. I didn't have a 4 year when I was hired at 9E. I had one by the 4th year I was there, though. Why? Opens up more options when it comes time to leave.
To me, ASSUMING this is even true, this is purely a way to get guys to vote "yes" on the TA that might otherwise not do so. Like was pointed out above, it's possible that people without a degree might be passed over for an actual job for "more qualified applicants." However, I'm a firm believer that if you don't meet the minimum qualifications for a job, you probably shouldn't be interviewed. I don't see this as any different than someone complaining because they didn't get interviewed because they only had 1500 hours instead of 3000 when 3000 was the published minimum to apply,
It's there as a "weed out" to reduce the total number of applicantions, much like SWA's 737 type rating. It's not that hard to get a 4 year degree in this day and age. You can get one in underwater basketweaving on-line. It doesn't HAVE to be aviation. I heard plenty of senior MEM guys grumbling about how they'd never get their dream job at FedEx because they didn't have a degree. When I would suggest actually getting the degree so they might get said dream job, you'd think I slapped them in the face. I didn't have a 4 year when I was hired at 9E. I had one by the 4th year I was there, though. Why? Opens up more options when it comes time to leave.
To me, ASSUMING this is even true, this is purely a way to get guys to vote "yes" on the TA that might otherwise not do so. Like was pointed out above, it's possible that people without a degree might be passed over for an actual job for "more qualified applicants." However, I'm a firm believer that if you don't meet the minimum qualifications for a job, you probably shouldn't be interviewed. I don't see this as any different than someone complaining because they didn't get interviewed because they only had 1500 hours instead of 3000 when 3000 was the published minimum to apply,
01-15-2013, 05:27 AM
#47
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Couple of points:
First, these pilots you are discussing are already "Delta Pilots." Our union has permitted Delta management to outsource some of our flying. These pilots are flying Delta passengers in airplanes operationally controlled by Delta Air Lines.
Second, they should have seniority numbers. Delta Air Lines is acquiring their carrier. They are an alter ego for Delta pilots. They negotiate directly with Delta management.
Third, Delta Air Lines is doing this to lower costs. Delta would like to bring the Delta pilots down to the new, lower, standard. Delta management thinks this will be cheaper (and it always is until someone crashes a jet and kills a lot of people ... a tragic, but repeatable fact pattern ) Every pilot in Delta service needs to maintain focus, not allowing these created crises to distract us from our work.
The Delta pilots have a union which has failed to even object to the Pinnacle pilots making an end run around the Delta pilots' representational autonomy. This union has facilitated outsourcing. To continue to "benefit" from outsourcing this union is compromising the future of Delta pilots.
The Delta pilots should watch Pinnacle closely. Outsourcing is the union equivalent of trading altitude for airspeed. If bankruptcy was a full stall; we have now regained flying speed. Our pay is coming back, but we are steadily losing our altitude in the form of decreasing representational power. Even with billion dollar profits we failed to achieve our contractual goals.
Please understand this Pinnacle Bridge for what it is ... an attempt to restart the race to the bottom by whipsawing the regional pilot groups. What will make this next round worse is that Pinnacle now sits at the table with Delta management and enjoys equal access with the Delta MEC. As such, we can expect Delta management to try to whipsaw the Delta pilots too.
First, these pilots you are discussing are already "Delta Pilots." Our union has permitted Delta management to outsource some of our flying. These pilots are flying Delta passengers in airplanes operationally controlled by Delta Air Lines.
Second, they should have seniority numbers. Delta Air Lines is acquiring their carrier. They are an alter ego for Delta pilots. They negotiate directly with Delta management.
Third, Delta Air Lines is doing this to lower costs. Delta would like to bring the Delta pilots down to the new, lower, standard. Delta management thinks this will be cheaper (and it always is until someone crashes a jet and kills a lot of people ... a tragic, but repeatable fact pattern ) Every pilot in Delta service needs to maintain focus, not allowing these created crises to distract us from our work.
The Delta pilots have a union which has failed to even object to the Pinnacle pilots making an end run around the Delta pilots' representational autonomy. This union has facilitated outsourcing. To continue to "benefit" from outsourcing this union is compromising the future of Delta pilots.
The Delta pilots should watch Pinnacle closely. Outsourcing is the union equivalent of trading altitude for airspeed. If bankruptcy was a full stall; we have now regained flying speed. Our pay is coming back, but we are steadily losing our altitude in the form of decreasing representational power. Even with billion dollar profits we failed to achieve our contractual goals.
Please understand this Pinnacle Bridge for what it is ... an attempt to restart the race to the bottom by whipsawing the regional pilot groups. What will make this next round worse is that Pinnacle now sits at the table with Delta management and enjoys equal access with the Delta MEC. As such, we can expect Delta management to try to whipsaw the Delta pilots too.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 01-15-2013 at 05:38 AM.
01-15-2013, 06:04 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 788
Couple of points:
First, these pilots you are discussing are already "Delta Pilots." Our union has permitted Delta management to outsource some of our flying. These pilots are flying Delta passengers in airplanes operationally controlled by Delta Air Lines.
Second, they should have seniority numbers. Delta Air Lines is acquiring their carrier. They are an alter ego for Delta pilots. They negotiate directly with Delta management.
Third, Delta Air Lines is doing this to lower costs. Delta would like to bring the Delta pilots down to the new, lower, standard. Delta management thinks this will be cheaper (and it always is until someone crashes a jet and kills a lot of people ... a tragic, but repeatable fact pattern ) Every pilot in Delta service needs to maintain focus, not allowing these created crises to distract us from our work.
The Delta pilots have a union which has failed to even object to the Pinnacle pilots making an end run around the Delta pilots' representational autonomy. This union has facilitated outsourcing. To continue to "benefit" from outsourcing this union is compromising the future of Delta pilots.
The Delta pilots should watch Pinnacle closely. Outsourcing is the union equivalent of trading altitude for airspeed. If bankruptcy was a full stall; we have now regained flying speed. Our pay is coming back, but we are steadily losing our altitude in the form of decreasing representational power. Even with billion dollar profits we failed to achieve our contractual goals.
Please understand this Pinnacle Bridge for what it is ... an attempt to restart the race to the bottom by whipsawing the regional pilot groups. What will make this next round worse is that Pinnacle now sits at the table with Delta management and enjoys equal access with the Delta MEC. As such, we can expect Delta management to try to whipsaw the Delta pilots too.
First, these pilots you are discussing are already "Delta Pilots." Our union has permitted Delta management to outsource some of our flying. These pilots are flying Delta passengers in airplanes operationally controlled by Delta Air Lines.
Second, they should have seniority numbers. Delta Air Lines is acquiring their carrier. They are an alter ego for Delta pilots. They negotiate directly with Delta management.
Third, Delta Air Lines is doing this to lower costs. Delta would like to bring the Delta pilots down to the new, lower, standard. Delta management thinks this will be cheaper (and it always is until someone crashes a jet and kills a lot of people ... a tragic, but repeatable fact pattern ) Every pilot in Delta service needs to maintain focus, not allowing these created crises to distract us from our work.
The Delta pilots have a union which has failed to even object to the Pinnacle pilots making an end run around the Delta pilots' representational autonomy. This union has facilitated outsourcing. To continue to "benefit" from outsourcing this union is compromising the future of Delta pilots.
The Delta pilots should watch Pinnacle closely. Outsourcing is the union equivalent of trading altitude for airspeed. If bankruptcy was a full stall; we have now regained flying speed. Our pay is coming back, but we are steadily losing our altitude in the form of decreasing representational power. Even with billion dollar profits we failed to achieve our contractual goals.
Please understand this Pinnacle Bridge for what it is ... an attempt to restart the race to the bottom by whipsawing the regional pilot groups. What will make this next round worse is that Pinnacle now sits at the table with Delta management and enjoys equal access with the Delta MEC. As such, we can expect Delta management to try to whipsaw the Delta pilots too.
01-15-2013, 06:15 AM
#50
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Posts: 404
The CPZ deal doesn't bother me as much as that was a deal negotiated pre-merger and they had a NW overseen interview process.
I was fine with the 9E deal up until this point, but now there's a side letter to the side letter. Very few good things can come from this other than some of the worst pilots you've ever seen getting an undue and streamlined chance at a job far above where they should have peaked.
I was fine with the 9E deal up until this point, but now there's a side letter to the side letter. Very few good things can come from this other than some of the worst pilots you've ever seen getting an undue and streamlined chance at a job far above where they should have peaked.
Please provide "deets" on why they are so bad?
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