GED = Good Enough for Delta
01-18-2013, 05:51 AM
#272
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Captain
Posts: 464
Does that make you a better pilot? No it doesn't. Does it make you less professional if you don't? No . Does it make you less safe? Ah NO.
Get used to it. Eventually it won't be a requirement anywhere. If you want to live in a dream world and think your a better pilot because of your piece of paper then have at it.
Get used to it. Eventually it won't be a requirement anywhere. If you want to live in a dream world and think your a better pilot because of your piece of paper then have at it.
01-18-2013, 06:09 AM
#273
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Does that make you a better pilot? No it doesn't. Does it make you less professional if you don't? No . Does it make you less safe? Ah NO.
Get used to it. Eventually it won't be a requirement anywhere. If you want to live in a dream world and think your a better pilot because of your piece of paper then have at it.
Get used to it. Eventually it won't be a requirement anywhere. If you want to live in a dream world and think your a better pilot because of your piece of paper then have at it.
01-18-2013, 06:21 AM
#274
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Legend,
You are very passionate about not having a "degree."
It is a competitive world. No degree is required to practice law in many states, any huckster can get a license to act as an investment advisor. For some reason a lawyer from Harvard can start at $500,000 a year while a lawyer from Georgia State (which has a higher bar passage rate) starts at less than a fifth of that amount.
While book learning does play a role, stick and rudder skills are mostly experience and God given ability. Since objectively we are trained to the same standard, it is impossible to differentiate.
But we can measure what are considered "competitive mins." Delta's competitive mins have always been a college degree. It appears some have tried to game the system using pay cuts to get moved to the front of the line. Whether it be Lance Armstrong or pilot who trades pay cuts for special hiring rights, our society reacts with outrage when they perceive an unfair advantage was taken to push to the front of the line.
How would you feel if the next express carrier negotiates an agreement which states "for pay 1% below Pinnacle, our pilots will be hired before Pinnacle preferential interviewees."
Your agreement has begun a new "market." The sale of preferential hiring opportunities. Some see that as a variation on paying for a job. I don't blame your pilots individually. But I do blame our union collectively for getting into this aspect of outsourcing. It has always been my opinion (as well as that of the Founders of our union) that we should only allow Delta pilots perform Delta flying. Applying that to our circumstance:
UNITY should be the moral cornerstone of our association. Instead the Pinnacle agreement offers a false substitute for unity in exchange for pay cuts. That's abhorrent.
You are very passionate about not having a "degree."
It is a competitive world. No degree is required to practice law in many states, any huckster can get a license to act as an investment advisor. For some reason a lawyer from Harvard can start at $500,000 a year while a lawyer from Georgia State (which has a higher bar passage rate) starts at less than a fifth of that amount.
While book learning does play a role, stick and rudder skills are mostly experience and God given ability. Since objectively we are trained to the same standard, it is impossible to differentiate.
But we can measure what are considered "competitive mins." Delta's competitive mins have always been a college degree. It appears some have tried to game the system using pay cuts to get moved to the front of the line. Whether it be Lance Armstrong or pilot who trades pay cuts for special hiring rights, our society reacts with outrage when they perceive an unfair advantage was taken to push to the front of the line.
How would you feel if the next express carrier negotiates an agreement which states "for pay 1% below Pinnacle, our pilots will be hired before Pinnacle preferential interviewees."
Your agreement has begun a new "market." The sale of preferential hiring opportunities. Some see that as a variation on paying for a job. I don't blame your pilots individually. But I do blame our union collectively for getting into this aspect of outsourcing. It has always been my opinion (as well as that of the Founders of our union) that we should only allow Delta pilots perform Delta flying. Applying that to our circumstance:
- The expresss carriers should not have hired thousands while the mainline carriers laid off thousands within a common airline network.
- Today there should not be thousands of express furloughs while the mainline carriers hire
- Airline management fleet decisions should not result in a crisis at one airline and a windfall at another, within the same common airline network.
- Pilots should not lose longevity and seniority as management moves flying to the airline "flavor of the day" within the brand
- The fix for all of these problems is UNITY. Structural unity, meaning only Delta pilots perform Delta flying and those pilots are represented by the Delta MEC to Delta management. No exceptions!
UNITY should be the moral cornerstone of our association. Instead the Pinnacle agreement offers a false substitute for unity in exchange for pay cuts. That's abhorrent.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 01-18-2013 at 06:34 AM.
01-18-2013, 06:40 AM
#275
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
Legend,
You are very passionate about not having a "degree."
It is a competitive world. No degree is required to practice law in many states, any huckster can get a license to act as an investment advisor. For some reason a lawyer from Harvard can start at $500,000 a year while a lawyer from Georgia State (which has a higher bar passage rate) starts at less than a fifth of that amount.
While book learning does play a role, stick and rudder skills are mostly experience and God given ability. Since objectively we are trained to the same standard, it is impossible to differentiate.
But we can measure what are considered "competitive mins." Delta's competitive mins have always been a college degree. It appears some have tried to game the system using pay cuts to get moved to the front of the line. Whether it be Lance Armstrong or pilot who trades pay cuts for special hiring rights, our society reacts with outrage when they perceive an unfair advantage was taken to push to the front of the line.
How would you feel if the next express carrier negotiates an agreement which states "for pay 1% below Pinnacle, our pilots will be hired before Pinnacle preferential interviewees."
Your agreement has begun a new "market." The sale of preferential hiring opportunities. Some see that as a variation on paying for a job. I don't blame your pilots individually. But I do blame our union collectively for getting into this aspect of outsourcing. It has always been my opinion (as well as that of the Founders of our union) that we should only allow Delta pilots perform Delta flying. Applying that to our circumstance:
UNITY should be the moral cornerstone of our association. Instead the Pinnacle agreement offers a false substitute for unity in exchange for pay cuts. That's abhorrent.
You are very passionate about not having a "degree."
It is a competitive world. No degree is required to practice law in many states, any huckster can get a license to act as an investment advisor. For some reason a lawyer from Harvard can start at $500,000 a year while a lawyer from Georgia State (which has a higher bar passage rate) starts at less than a fifth of that amount.
While book learning does play a role, stick and rudder skills are mostly experience and God given ability. Since objectively we are trained to the same standard, it is impossible to differentiate.
But we can measure what are considered "competitive mins." Delta's competitive mins have always been a college degree. It appears some have tried to game the system using pay cuts to get moved to the front of the line. Whether it be Lance Armstrong or pilot who trades pay cuts for special hiring rights, our society reacts with outrage when they perceive an unfair advantage was taken to push to the front of the line.
How would you feel if the next express carrier negotiates an agreement which states "for pay 1% below Pinnacle, our pilots will be hired before Pinnacle preferential interviewees."
Your agreement has begun a new "market." The sale of preferential hiring opportunities. Some see that as a variation on paying for a job. I don't blame your pilots individually. But I do blame our union collectively for getting into this aspect of outsourcing. It has always been my opinion (as well as that of the Founders of our union) that we should only allow Delta pilots perform Delta flying. Applying that to our circumstance:
- The expresss carriers should not have hired thousands while the mainline carriers laid off thousands within a common airline network.
- Today there should not be thousands of express furloughs while the mainline carriers hire
- Airline management fleet decisions should not result in a crisis at one airline and a windfall at another, within the same common airline network.
- Pilots should not lose longevity and seniority as management moves flying to the airline "flavor of the day" within the brand
- The fix for all of these problems is UNITY. Structural unity, meaning only Delta pilots perform Delta flying and those pilots are represented by the Delta MEC to Delta management. No exceptions!
UNITY should be the moral cornerstone of our association. Instead the Pinnacle agreement offers a false substitute for unity in exchange for pay cuts. That's abhorrent.
01-18-2013, 07:05 AM
#276
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Does that make you a better pilot? No it doesn't. Does it make you less professional if you don't? No . Does it make you less safe? Ah NO.
Get used to it. Eventually it won't be a requirement anywhere. If you want to live in a dream world and think your a better pilot because of your piece of paper then have at it.
Get used to it. Eventually it won't be a requirement anywhere. If you want to live in a dream world and think your a better pilot because of your piece of paper then have at it.
01-18-2013, 07:13 AM
#278
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
01-18-2013, 07:21 AM
#279
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,244
Does that make you a better pilot? No it doesn't. Does it make you less professional if you don't? No . Does it make you less safe? Ah NO.
Get used to it. Eventually it won't be a requirement anywhere. If you want to live in a dream world and think your a better pilot because of your piece of paper then have at it.
Get used to it. Eventually it won't be a requirement anywhere. If you want to live in a dream world and think your a better pilot because of your piece of paper then have at it.
01-18-2013, 07:32 AM
#280
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Bar, you simply don't get it. You make it sound like Delta went to some random DCI carrier and said...."Hey, if you guys sell out and take huge pay cuts we will give you guaranteed interviews". The 9E pay cuts or shut down was coming regardless. The pilot group had very little if any bargaining power.
Delta is investing 2.3 Billion into Pinnacle. *Aside from the 737-900 purchase, that is more capital expenditure than Delta is spending on Delta! Delta was down to the last two large DCI carriers (after having destroyed their others BTW). They needed GoJets plus one to force SkyWest to be reasonable.
Did Comair really go out of business while it's parent company made 1.6 Billion? Is GoJets really the "best regional airline" in 2011-2012 ? Was ASA and Comair "deserving" of a 500 airplane order just prior to Contract 2000 ?
When things make no rational economic sense there has to be another factor which is influencing the market. The boom and bust in the express airline world is due in large part to the fact that "we" collectively as a union allow management to whipsaw these carriers against one another to destroy employees' careers.
Zombies do not exist in the real world.
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