American Eagle pilot removed in MSP
01-06-2013, 02:05 PM
#51
Banned
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,071
For those of you doubting the fact that alcoholism is a disease, read Joe Balzer's book "Flying Drunk." He was the NWA 727 F/E arrested along with the CA and FO in 1990 for operating a flight under the influence from FAR-MSP. He now flies for us (AA.) In his book he dedicates a chapter or two to the research that's been done on alcoholism. It is clearly proven that those who have a certain enzyme in the liver are very susceptible to having a drinking problem while not realizing the danger of the addiction. To you and I, avoiding a drink on the layover is no big deal - to an alcoholic, it is a VERY big deal and not so easily avoided. And once he has that one drink, it sends a signal in his brain to keep on.
Please don't make the assumption that this AE Captain was a dumbass and could have easily avoided it. If he suffers from this problem, he very well may not have known the extent of his addiction and voila. If anything, pray for him that he is able to heal and return to flying.
Please don't make the assumption that this AE Captain was a dumbass and could have easily avoided it. If he suffers from this problem, he very well may not have known the extent of his addiction and voila. If anything, pray for him that he is able to heal and return to flying.
It's always a disease when we get caught... Many airlines have substance abuse policies. Maybe he should've taken advantage of it.
01-06-2013, 02:11 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: A220 First Officer
Posts: 572
Updated Story
Published 10 hours ago. It says that he went to the hospital for a blood test and was "well over the legal limit" when he did the breathalyzer.
Pilot suspended for failing blood-alcohol test in Minneapolis | The Albert Lea Tribune
Pilot suspended for failing blood-alcohol test in Minneapolis | The Albert Lea Tribune
01-06-2013, 02:19 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,918
I have no doubt it is a disease however, if someone had been killed or an accident happened, I'm sure we'd all be singing a different tune. What if it were one of our loved ones boarded on that flight? How would you feel then?
It's always a disease when we get caught... Many airlines have substance abuse policies. Maybe he should've taken advantage of it.
It's always a disease when we get caught... Many airlines have substance abuse policies. Maybe he should've taken advantage of it.
I've talked to more than a few recovering alcoholics. They almost all have had the same exact situations/circumstances.
01-06-2013, 02:45 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 216
Exactly my sentiments!
(This guy - buddies8 - would also complain that if the squad car was in an open view, he would have adhered to speed limit).
01-06-2013, 03:04 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 216
Entrapment is a defense to criminal charges when it is established that the agent or official originated the idea of the crime and induced the accused to engage in it. If the crime was promoted by a private person who has no connection to the government, it is not entrapment. A person induced by a friend to sell drugs has no legal excuse when police are informed that the person has agreed to make the sale.
The rationale underlying the defense is to deter law enforcement officers from engaging in reprehensible conduct by inducing persons not disposed to commit crimes to engage in criminal activity. In their efforts to obtain evidence and combat crime, however, officers are permitted to use some deception. For example, an officer may pretend to be a drug addict in order to apprehend a person suspected of selling drugs. On the other hand, an officer cannot use chicanery or Fraud to lure a person to commit a crime the person is not previously willing to commit. Generally, the defense is not available if the officer merely created an opportunity for the commission of the crime by a person already planning or willing to commit it.
The defense of entrapment frequently arises when crimes are committed against willing victims. It is likely to be asserted to counter such charges as illegal sales of liquor or narcotics, Bribery, Sex Offenses, and gambling. Persons who commit these types of crimes are most easily apprehended when officers disguise themselves as willing victims.
Most states require a defendant who raises the defense of entrapment to prove he or she did not have a previous intent to commit the crime. Courts determine whether a defendant had a predisposition to commit a crime by examining the person's behavior prior to the commission of the crime and by inquiring into the person's past criminal record if one exists. Usually, a predisposition is found if a defendant was previously involved in criminal conduct similar to the crime with which he or she is charged.
When an officer supplies an accused with a tool or a means necessary to commit the crime, the defense is not automatically established. Although this factor may be considered as evidence of entrapment, it is not conclusive. The more important determination is whether the official planted the criminal idea in the mind of the accused or whether the idea was already there.
Entrapment is not a constitutionally required defense, and, consequently, not all states are bound to provide it as a defense in their criminal codes. Some states have excluded it as a defense, reasoning that anyone who can be talked into a criminal act cannot be free from guilt.
The rationale underlying the defense is to deter law enforcement officers from engaging in reprehensible conduct by inducing persons not disposed to commit crimes to engage in criminal activity. In their efforts to obtain evidence and combat crime, however, officers are permitted to use some deception. For example, an officer may pretend to be a drug addict in order to apprehend a person suspected of selling drugs. On the other hand, an officer cannot use chicanery or Fraud to lure a person to commit a crime the person is not previously willing to commit. Generally, the defense is not available if the officer merely created an opportunity for the commission of the crime by a person already planning or willing to commit it.
The defense of entrapment frequently arises when crimes are committed against willing victims. It is likely to be asserted to counter such charges as illegal sales of liquor or narcotics, Bribery, Sex Offenses, and gambling. Persons who commit these types of crimes are most easily apprehended when officers disguise themselves as willing victims.
Most states require a defendant who raises the defense of entrapment to prove he or she did not have a previous intent to commit the crime. Courts determine whether a defendant had a predisposition to commit a crime by examining the person's behavior prior to the commission of the crime and by inquiring into the person's past criminal record if one exists. Usually, a predisposition is found if a defendant was previously involved in criminal conduct similar to the crime with which he or she is charged.
When an officer supplies an accused with a tool or a means necessary to commit the crime, the defense is not automatically established. Although this factor may be considered as evidence of entrapment, it is not conclusive. The more important determination is whether the official planted the criminal idea in the mind of the accused or whether the idea was already there.
Entrapment is not a constitutionally required defense, and, consequently, not all states are bound to provide it as a defense in their criminal codes. Some states have excluded it as a defense, reasoning that anyone who can be talked into a criminal act cannot be free from guilt.
Always cite the source [give credit], otherwise it is considered Plagiarism!
(I am sure you felt entrapped).
Plagiarism
[pley-juh-riz-uhm]
noun
1.
an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author: It is said that he plagiarized Thoreau's plagiarism of a line written by Montaigne. Synonyms: appropriation, infringement, piracy, counterfeiting; theft, borrowing, cribbing, passing off.
2.
a piece of writing or other work reflecting such unauthorized use or imitation: “These two manuscripts are clearly plagiarisms,” the editor said, tossing them angrily on the floor.
Source: Dictionary.com
01-06-2013, 03:19 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 611
Why do people assume that because someone had alot to drink one night they are diseased alcoholics? Maybe they guy doesn't drink very often. We have all been in the bar on an overnight and taken a look at the clock before deciding whether to order another or not. If you are buzzed and /or getting close to your companies cut off time (or 8 hrs), then order another, of course that's poor judgement. The same goes for these A holes that get lit up at the bar and decide to drive home.
I can't imagine how bad this guy feels right now, but he screwed up and that sucks, be we all know the rules.
I can't imagine how bad this guy feels right now, but he screwed up and that sucks, be we all know the rules.
01-06-2013, 03:34 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Nice Cut n Paste.
Always cite the source [give credit], otherwise it is considered Plagiarism!
(I am sure you felt entrapped).
Plagiarism
[pley-juh-riz-uhm]
noun
1.
an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author: It is said that he plagiarized Thoreau's plagiarism of a line written by Montaigne. Synonyms: appropriation, infringement, piracy, counterfeiting; theft, borrowing, cribbing, passing off.
2.
a piece of writing or other work reflecting such unauthorized use or imitation: “These two manuscripts are clearly plagiarisms,” the editor said, tossing them angrily on the floor.
Source: Dictionary.com
Always cite the source [give credit], otherwise it is considered Plagiarism!
(I am sure you felt entrapped).
Plagiarism
[pley-juh-riz-uhm]
noun
1.
an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author: It is said that he plagiarized Thoreau's plagiarism of a line written by Montaigne. Synonyms: appropriation, infringement, piracy, counterfeiting; theft, borrowing, cribbing, passing off.
2.
a piece of writing or other work reflecting such unauthorized use or imitation: “These two manuscripts are clearly plagiarisms,” the editor said, tossing them angrily on the floor.
Source: Dictionary.com
01-06-2013, 04:42 PM
#58
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Why do people assume that because someone had alot to drink one night they are diseased alcoholics? Maybe they guy doesn't drink very often. We have all been in the bar on an overnight and taken a look at the clock before deciding whether to order another or not. If you are buzzed and /or getting close to your companies cut off time (or 8 hrs), then order another, of course that's poor judgement. The same goes for these A holes that get lit up at the bar and decide to drive home.
I can't imagine how bad this guy feels right now, but he screwed up and that sucks, be we all know the rules.
I can't imagine how bad this guy feels right now, but he screwed up and that sucks, be we all know the rules.
If it's true this pilot not only exceeded the .04 limit, but was legally intoxicated, there is a problem. It seems obvious his condition was noticeable enough to alert those "passing by", so it must have been a significant lapse and another aspect of those with a problem is their inability to judge exactly how they appear to others, by sight , smell or actions. The result here should be a lesson to all of the consequences of not managing your alcohol intake responsibly. Unfortunately, for this pilot to have a chance of getting back to the night before this occured (if he does), it will almost certainly result in revocation of all certificates, tens of thousands of dollars in legal expenses, a possible criminal record, a 2-year rehabilitation program, thousands of dollars to re qualify up to ATP standards beginning with Private Pilot onward and re qualification with his airline along with close substance abuse monitoring for the remainder of his career.
One can only wonder if it will cost him a marriage or worse. Truly an unfortunate situation, but one we all should use to remind us of our necessity to manage our lives properly and confront ourselves if we think we have a problem BEFORE something like this happens to us.
01-06-2013, 04:44 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,918
Why do people assume that because someone had alot to drink one night they are diseased alcoholics? Maybe they guy doesn't drink very often. We have all been in the bar on an overnight and taken a look at the clock before deciding whether to order another or not. If you are buzzed and /or getting close to your companies cut off time (or 8 hrs), then order another, of course that's poor judgement. The same goes for these A holes that get lit up at the bar and decide to drive home.
I can't imagine how bad this guy feels right now, but he screwed up and that sucks, be we all know the rules.
I can't imagine how bad this guy feels right now, but he screwed up and that sucks, be we all know the rules.
If he is not one, and drank irresponsibly, well that's a whole other issue.
Either case, instead of ostracizing this pilot, how much more constructive would it be to support him through what is undoubtedly one of the worst periods of his life. I know I would appreciate the support if I was ever in his shoes. Even if it is just support on a message board, I feel for this pilot and pray he recovers.
01-06-2013, 04:53 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 4,024
If it truly is a disease, it's the kind of disease that should prevent someone from being an airline pilot in the first place, since they are unable to control their disease. If this was a "Denzel's-character" type, he should have never been a pilot in the first place, until that was somehow treated and monitored. If it was a one-time lapse, he should be fired for that lapse, as it's huge in this industry that demands precision and good judgement.
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