Delta to buy Pinnacle
01-04-2013, 08:51 PM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Airbus button pusher
Posts: 2,448
Didn't the call say about 1100 to 1200 pilots with the new rest rules? Obviously they could be wrong but that's their first projection
01-04-2013, 09:02 PM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: AT802
Posts: 241
Then compare the 4th year rates for the Regional FO's:
Pinnacle: $38.58 at DOS on 900 and $37.36 on the 200
Compass: $39
Air Wisconsin: $41
Go Jet: $38
PSA: $37
Trans States: $38
Eagle: $39 Jet and $34 Prop
Express Jet: $39
Republic: $37
Skywest: $43, 42, 39 Jet and $33 Prop
Mesa: $34 Jet and $25 Prop
*All numbers were from APC Airlines links.
Pinnacle: $38.58 at DOS on 900 and $37.36 on the 200
Compass: $39
Air Wisconsin: $41
Go Jet: $38
PSA: $37
Trans States: $38
Eagle: $39 Jet and $34 Prop
Express Jet: $39
Republic: $37
Skywest: $43, 42, 39 Jet and $33 Prop
Mesa: $34 Jet and $25 Prop
*All numbers were from APC Airlines links.
there you go confusing the blowhard hypocrites with facts.....please stop.....
01-04-2013, 09:24 PM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Back in school.
Posts: 580
Well played Pinchanickled but once again you left out some important information. Neither options address the benefits of the TA to a very junior pilot and to the industry as a whole.
If you had the choice:
A) Keep your job a little while longer to build up your flight time, get your ATP to make yourself more marketable and all the other perks in the TA plus $2000 for 0-1st year longevity, save the aircraft we have left from going to S5 and Gojets which lowers the bar even more for your next negotiations.
OR
B) Become unemployed
What would you personally choose? And yes this is a direct question for you to answer, a simple A or B will suffice.
And while were at it, I will repost the other two questions I posed to you, just in case you missed them or just forgot to answer them.
1) Pinchanickled, if you were making $75K to $120k per year, would you be so eager to give that up for the sake of the industry and the good of other pilots? Just curious, an honest yes or no answer please with an explanation if you dont mind. Thanks
2) Also, in all sincerity, could you explain how it will benefit the industry when our airplanes go to a carrier that will fly them for less than we can, even with our concessionary TA? Keep in mind that three other carriers have already bid for our flying in the event the TA doesnt pass and they are cheaper than us with our TA.
Pinchanickled, please understand that I am not trying to attack you. I am sincerely looking for a rational arguement that would sway my vote from yes to no. Most of you dont have all the information regarding this TA so its difficult to make an informed decision. I understand that.
To everyone else, I am just curious. How would you all honestly vote if you were in our situation given the above information?
This TA sucks. Unemployment sucks more.
You guys still crack me up
If you had the choice:
A) Keep your job a little while longer to build up your flight time, get your ATP to make yourself more marketable and all the other perks in the TA plus $2000 for 0-1st year longevity, save the aircraft we have left from going to S5 and Gojets which lowers the bar even more for your next negotiations.
OR
B) Become unemployed
What would you personally choose? And yes this is a direct question for you to answer, a simple A or B will suffice.
And while were at it, I will repost the other two questions I posed to you, just in case you missed them or just forgot to answer them.
1) Pinchanickled, if you were making $75K to $120k per year, would you be so eager to give that up for the sake of the industry and the good of other pilots? Just curious, an honest yes or no answer please with an explanation if you dont mind. Thanks
2) Also, in all sincerity, could you explain how it will benefit the industry when our airplanes go to a carrier that will fly them for less than we can, even with our concessionary TA? Keep in mind that three other carriers have already bid for our flying in the event the TA doesnt pass and they are cheaper than us with our TA.
Pinchanickled, please understand that I am not trying to attack you. I am sincerely looking for a rational arguement that would sway my vote from yes to no. Most of you dont have all the information regarding this TA so its difficult to make an informed decision. I understand that.
To everyone else, I am just curious. How would you all honestly vote if you were in our situation given the above information?
This TA sucks. Unemployment sucks more.
You guys still crack me up
I am one of those guys going from ~80k to 34k a year because of the reductions... and one of the bottom to get furloughed whenever that may occur. I am voting no. Unemployment or not I (like many... and it may have been foolish of me but hindsight is 20/20) dedicated my time as a "temporary Captain" to getting my 1k TPIC (still short but thats reserve life for you I guess) and basically spent the last 6 years "living to work"/honing my "craft".
-Sidenote- I apologize if this doesn't make literary sense but I didn't major in English but rather a Science (and not aviation).
I am a no vote because I feel this is a slap to the face. I've stated my opinion before but since I didn't vote our leadership (MGT that is) into power I don't feel it necessary to bail the company out.
I take issue with the fact that we, the employees, are stakeholders within the company and yet no word is mentioned whether the common stock available will be maintained or new stock will be issued upon emerging from BK. This is a common issue with companies operating within the confines of BK. We might have been idiots but there are some of us who bought into our own stock as we once believed in this company.
I have an issue with the "bridge program" not being a viable resolution to our longevity problem.
I disagree with the clause stating that the TA is null and void (as far as the ASA/aircraft is/are concerned) if we see any snapbacks in compensation.
I disagree with the fact that we (as a union) negotiated with DL mgt and not our own mgt (for better or worse mind you) because I think it sets a bad precendent for not only us in the future but other carriers. Just check the signature at the bottom of the TA.... its Anderson's.
I feel that our management staff has failed the company, the stakeholders, and our customers on multiple levels (I don't isolate this disappointment to just our current Mgt but all the way back to Trenary).
I have no argument to show that our aircraft going to other carriers would benefit the industry... I can only state that I have some morals to my name that leave me unable as a year 5-6 employee to vote in favor of this TA. I would rather see this company fold than vote for something I see as less than fair and equitable compensation for the experience and hard work I bring to the table.
Again I apologize for not being a wordsmith but those are my thoughts at this late hour.... whether they be right or wrong. They are my own beliefs... my grubby Copenhagen stained mind and fingers may not allow me the knowledge and insight that others more adept to political prowess (in terms of contracts and the future of regional airline may go) may have but I would rather stand for this industry, this profession, and this industrial sector in my own way than let someone else impose their beliefs upon me.
Thank you for having a laugh at our expense (I really do mean that) and fly safe/have fun.
01-05-2013, 01:15 AM
#114
Kerbal Rocket Surgeon
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DTW 717A
Posts: 1,099
Hey Check...
I am one of those guys going from ~80k to 34k a year because of the reductions... and one of the bottom to get furloughed whenever that may occur. I am voting no. Unemployment or not I (like many... and it may have been foolish of me but hindsight is 20/20) dedicated my time as a "temporary Captain" to getting my 1k TPIC (still short but thats reserve life for you I guess) and basically spent the last 6 years "living to work"/honing my "craft".
-Sidenote- I apologize if this doesn't make literary sense but I didn't major in English but rather a Science (and not aviation).
I am a no vote because I feel this is a slap to the face. I've stated my opinion before but since I didn't vote our leadership (MGT that is) into power I don't feel it necessary to bail the company out.
I take issue with the fact that we, the employees, are stakeholders within the company and yet no word is mentioned whether the common stock available will be maintained or new stock will be issued upon emerging from BK. This is a common issue with companies operating within the confines of BK. We might have been idiots but there are some of us who bought into our own stock as we once believed in this company.
I have an issue with the "bridge program" not being a viable resolution to our longevity problem.
I disagree with the clause stating that the TA is null and void (as far as the ASA/aircraft is/are concerned) if we see any snapbacks in compensation.
I disagree with the fact that we (as a union) negotiated with DL mgt and not our own mgt (for better or worse mind you) because I think it sets a bad precendent for not only us in the future but other carriers. Just check the signature at the bottom of the TA.... its Anderson's.
I feel that our management staff has failed the company, the stakeholders, and our customers on multiple levels (I don't isolate this disappointment to just our current Mgt but all the way back to Trenary).
I have no argument to show that our aircraft going to other carriers would benefit the industry... I can only state that I have some morals to my name that leave me unable as a year 5-6 employee to vote in favor of this TA. I would rather see this company fold than vote for something I see as less than fair and equitable compensation for the experience and hard work I bring to the table.
Again I apologize for not being a wordsmith but those are my thoughts at this late hour.... whether they be right or wrong. They are my own beliefs... my grubby Copenhagen stained mind and fingers may not allow me the knowledge and insight that others more adept to political prowess (in terms of contracts and the future of regional airline may go) may have but I would rather stand for this industry, this profession, and this industrial sector in my own way than let someone else impose their beliefs upon me.
Thank you for having a laugh at our expense (I really do mean that) and fly safe/have fun.
I am one of those guys going from ~80k to 34k a year because of the reductions... and one of the bottom to get furloughed whenever that may occur. I am voting no. Unemployment or not I (like many... and it may have been foolish of me but hindsight is 20/20) dedicated my time as a "temporary Captain" to getting my 1k TPIC (still short but thats reserve life for you I guess) and basically spent the last 6 years "living to work"/honing my "craft".
-Sidenote- I apologize if this doesn't make literary sense but I didn't major in English but rather a Science (and not aviation).
I am a no vote because I feel this is a slap to the face. I've stated my opinion before but since I didn't vote our leadership (MGT that is) into power I don't feel it necessary to bail the company out.
I take issue with the fact that we, the employees, are stakeholders within the company and yet no word is mentioned whether the common stock available will be maintained or new stock will be issued upon emerging from BK. This is a common issue with companies operating within the confines of BK. We might have been idiots but there are some of us who bought into our own stock as we once believed in this company.
I have an issue with the "bridge program" not being a viable resolution to our longevity problem.
I disagree with the clause stating that the TA is null and void (as far as the ASA/aircraft is/are concerned) if we see any snapbacks in compensation.
I disagree with the fact that we (as a union) negotiated with DL mgt and not our own mgt (for better or worse mind you) because I think it sets a bad precendent for not only us in the future but other carriers. Just check the signature at the bottom of the TA.... its Anderson's.
I feel that our management staff has failed the company, the stakeholders, and our customers on multiple levels (I don't isolate this disappointment to just our current Mgt but all the way back to Trenary).
I have no argument to show that our aircraft going to other carriers would benefit the industry... I can only state that I have some morals to my name that leave me unable as a year 5-6 employee to vote in favor of this TA. I would rather see this company fold than vote for something I see as less than fair and equitable compensation for the experience and hard work I bring to the table.
Again I apologize for not being a wordsmith but those are my thoughts at this late hour.... whether they be right or wrong. They are my own beliefs... my grubby Copenhagen stained mind and fingers may not allow me the knowledge and insight that others more adept to political prowess (in terms of contracts and the future of regional airline may go) may have but I would rather stand for this industry, this profession, and this industrial sector in my own way than let someone else impose their beliefs upon me.
Thank you for having a laugh at our expense (I really do mean that) and fly safe/have fun.
01-05-2013, 05:09 AM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,097
Hey Check...
I am one of those guys going from ~80k to 34k a year because of the reductions... and one of the bottom to get furloughed whenever that may occur. I am voting no. Unemployment or not I (like many... and it may have been foolish of me but hindsight is 20/20) dedicated my time as a "temporary Captain" to getting my 1k TPIC (still short but thats reserve life for you I guess) and basically spent the last 6 years "living to work"/honing my "craft".
-Sidenote- I apologize if this doesn't make literary sense but I didn't major in English but rather a Science (and not aviation).
I am a no vote because I feel this is a slap to the face. I've stated my opinion before but since I didn't vote our leadership (MGT that is) into power I don't feel it necessary to bail the company out.
I take issue with the fact that we, the employees, are stakeholders within the company and yet no word is mentioned whether the common stock available will be maintained or new stock will be issued upon emerging from BK. This is a common issue with companies operating within the confines of BK. We might have been idiots but there are some of us who bought into our own stock as we once believed in this company.
I have an issue with the "bridge program" not being a viable resolution to our longevity problem.
I disagree with the clause stating that the TA is null and void (as far as the ASA/aircraft is/are concerned) if we see any snapbacks in compensation.
I disagree with the fact that we (as a union) negotiated with DL mgt and not our own mgt (for better or worse mind you) because I think it sets a bad precendent for not only us in the future but other carriers. Just check the signature at the bottom of the TA.... its Anderson's.
I feel that our management staff has failed the company, the stakeholders, and our customers on multiple levels (I don't isolate this disappointment to just our current Mgt but all the way back to Trenary).
I have no argument to show that our aircraft going to other carriers would benefit the industry... I can only state that I have some morals to my name that leave me unable as a year 5-6 employee to vote in favor of this TA. I would rather see this company fold than vote for something I see as less than fair and equitable compensation for the experience and hard work I bring to the table.
Again I apologize for not being a wordsmith but those are my thoughts at this late hour.... whether they be right or wrong. They are my own beliefs... my grubby Copenhagen stained mind and fingers may not allow me the knowledge and insight that others more adept to political prowess (in terms of contracts and the future of regional airline may go) may have but I would rather stand for this industry, this profession, and this industrial sector in my own way than let someone else impose their beliefs upon me.
Thank you for having a laugh at our expense (I really do mean that) and fly safe/have fun.
I am one of those guys going from ~80k to 34k a year because of the reductions... and one of the bottom to get furloughed whenever that may occur. I am voting no. Unemployment or not I (like many... and it may have been foolish of me but hindsight is 20/20) dedicated my time as a "temporary Captain" to getting my 1k TPIC (still short but thats reserve life for you I guess) and basically spent the last 6 years "living to work"/honing my "craft".
-Sidenote- I apologize if this doesn't make literary sense but I didn't major in English but rather a Science (and not aviation).
I am a no vote because I feel this is a slap to the face. I've stated my opinion before but since I didn't vote our leadership (MGT that is) into power I don't feel it necessary to bail the company out.
I take issue with the fact that we, the employees, are stakeholders within the company and yet no word is mentioned whether the common stock available will be maintained or new stock will be issued upon emerging from BK. This is a common issue with companies operating within the confines of BK. We might have been idiots but there are some of us who bought into our own stock as we once believed in this company.
I have an issue with the "bridge program" not being a viable resolution to our longevity problem.
I disagree with the clause stating that the TA is null and void (as far as the ASA/aircraft is/are concerned) if we see any snapbacks in compensation.
I disagree with the fact that we (as a union) negotiated with DL mgt and not our own mgt (for better or worse mind you) because I think it sets a bad precendent for not only us in the future but other carriers. Just check the signature at the bottom of the TA.... its Anderson's.
I feel that our management staff has failed the company, the stakeholders, and our customers on multiple levels (I don't isolate this disappointment to just our current Mgt but all the way back to Trenary).
I have no argument to show that our aircraft going to other carriers would benefit the industry... I can only state that I have some morals to my name that leave me unable as a year 5-6 employee to vote in favor of this TA. I would rather see this company fold than vote for something I see as less than fair and equitable compensation for the experience and hard work I bring to the table.
Again I apologize for not being a wordsmith but those are my thoughts at this late hour.... whether they be right or wrong. They are my own beliefs... my grubby Copenhagen stained mind and fingers may not allow me the knowledge and insight that others more adept to political prowess (in terms of contracts and the future of regional airline may go) may have but I would rather stand for this industry, this profession, and this industrial sector in my own way than let someone else impose their beliefs upon me.
Thank you for having a laugh at our expense (I really do mean that) and fly safe/have fun.
01-05-2013, 05:33 AM
#117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 544
Okay, but after the new fleet alignment with 81 -900s, there won't BE anymore 4 year FOs. They'll be 7 or 8 year FOs. So, let's re-compare, shall we?
Pinnacle $38.58
Compass $42
Air Wisconsin $45
GoJet $38
PSA $40
Trans States $41
Eagle $41
ExpressJet $43
Republic $37
Skywest $47
Mesa $36
*All numbers were from APC Airlines links"
Pinnacle $38.58
Compass $42
Air Wisconsin $45
GoJet $38
PSA $40
Trans States $41
Eagle $41
ExpressJet $43
Republic $37
Skywest $47
Mesa $36
*All numbers were from APC Airlines links"
76-Seat FO payrates (Year 8):
Skywest...............$47
ExpressJet (ASA)....$47 (in negotiations)
Air Wisconsin.........$45 (50-seat rate, in negotiations)
ExpressJet (XJT)....$44 (50 seat rate, in negotiations)
Compass..............$42 (contract amendable April 2013)
American Eagle......$42
Trans States.........$41 (50-seat rate)
PSA.....................$40 (in negotiations)
Pinnacle TA........$38.58
Go Jet.................$38 (contract amendable June 2013)
Republic...............$37 (in negotiations)
Mesa...................$37 (in negotiations)
Last edited by Redbird611; 01-05-2013 at 05:38 AM. Reason: layout correction
01-05-2013, 06:27 AM
#118
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: Screwed
Posts: 68
Hey Check...
I am one of those guys going from ~80k to 34k a year because of the reductions... and one of the bottom to get furloughed whenever that may occur. I am voting no. Unemployment or not I (like many... and it may have been foolish of me but hindsight is 20/20) dedicated my time as a "temporary Captain" to getting my 1k TPIC (still short but thats reserve life for you I guess) and basically spent the last 6 years "living to work"/honing my "craft".
-Sidenote- I apologize if this doesn't make literary sense but I didn't major in English but rather a Science (and not aviation).
I am a no vote because I feel this is a slap to the face. I've stated my opinion before but since I didn't vote our leadership (MGT that is) into power I don't feel it necessary to bail the company out.
I take issue with the fact that we, the employees, are stakeholders within the company and yet no word is mentioned whether the common stock available will be maintained or new stock will be issued upon emerging from BK. This is a common issue with companies operating within the confines of BK. We might have been idiots but there are some of us who bought into our own stock as we once believed in this company.
I have an issue with the "bridge program" not being a viable resolution to our longevity problem.
I disagree with the clause stating that the TA is null and void (as far as the ASA/aircraft is/are concerned) if we see any snapbacks in compensation.
I disagree with the fact that we (as a union) negotiated with DL mgt and not our own mgt (for better or worse mind you) because I think it sets a bad precendent for not only us in the future but other carriers. Just check the signature at the bottom of the TA.... its Anderson's.
I feel that our management staff has failed the company, the stakeholders, and our customers on multiple levels (I don't isolate this disappointment to just our current Mgt but all the way back to Trenary).
I have no argument to show that our aircraft going to other carriers would benefit the industry... I can only state that I have some morals to my name that leave me unable as a year 5-6 employee to vote in favor of this TA. I would rather see this company fold than vote for something I see as less than fair and equitable compensation for the experience and hard work I bring to the table.
Again I apologize for not being a wordsmith but those are my thoughts at this late hour.... whether they be right or wrong. They are my own beliefs... my grubby Copenhagen stained mind and fingers may not allow me the knowledge and insight that others more adept to political prowess (in terms of contracts and the future of regional airline may go) may have but I would rather stand for this industry, this profession, and this industrial sector in my own way than let someone else impose their beliefs upon me.
Thank you for having a laugh at our expense (I really do mean that) and fly safe/have fun.
I am one of those guys going from ~80k to 34k a year because of the reductions... and one of the bottom to get furloughed whenever that may occur. I am voting no. Unemployment or not I (like many... and it may have been foolish of me but hindsight is 20/20) dedicated my time as a "temporary Captain" to getting my 1k TPIC (still short but thats reserve life for you I guess) and basically spent the last 6 years "living to work"/honing my "craft".
-Sidenote- I apologize if this doesn't make literary sense but I didn't major in English but rather a Science (and not aviation).
I am a no vote because I feel this is a slap to the face. I've stated my opinion before but since I didn't vote our leadership (MGT that is) into power I don't feel it necessary to bail the company out.
I take issue with the fact that we, the employees, are stakeholders within the company and yet no word is mentioned whether the common stock available will be maintained or new stock will be issued upon emerging from BK. This is a common issue with companies operating within the confines of BK. We might have been idiots but there are some of us who bought into our own stock as we once believed in this company.
I have an issue with the "bridge program" not being a viable resolution to our longevity problem.
I disagree with the clause stating that the TA is null and void (as far as the ASA/aircraft is/are concerned) if we see any snapbacks in compensation.
I disagree with the fact that we (as a union) negotiated with DL mgt and not our own mgt (for better or worse mind you) because I think it sets a bad precendent for not only us in the future but other carriers. Just check the signature at the bottom of the TA.... its Anderson's.
I feel that our management staff has failed the company, the stakeholders, and our customers on multiple levels (I don't isolate this disappointment to just our current Mgt but all the way back to Trenary).
I have no argument to show that our aircraft going to other carriers would benefit the industry... I can only state that I have some morals to my name that leave me unable as a year 5-6 employee to vote in favor of this TA. I would rather see this company fold than vote for something I see as less than fair and equitable compensation for the experience and hard work I bring to the table.
Again I apologize for not being a wordsmith but those are my thoughts at this late hour.... whether they be right or wrong. They are my own beliefs... my grubby Copenhagen stained mind and fingers may not allow me the knowledge and insight that others more adept to political prowess (in terms of contracts and the future of regional airline may go) may have but I would rather stand for this industry, this profession, and this industrial sector in my own way than let someone else impose their beliefs upon me.
Thank you for having a laugh at our expense (I really do mean that) and fly safe/have fun.
Belliot, hats off to you. This is a very honest response to my questions and concerns about what is happening at 9E.
I stand by you and your decision. And your right to vote how you see fit.
Thanks
01-05-2013, 09:27 AM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 344
Maybe a delta pilot can weigh in on this, but I was talking with a delta crew in philly before Xmas and they were saying that delta has some new program that accounts for rest rules and staffing and that they've figured out a way to operate with their current staffing model. What I took from that was them saying that they wouldn't need to add pilots to the list solely because of the new rest rules. Johnso29, you're a delta guy I think, know anything about this?
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wannabepilot
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