xjtguy

That's ALWAYS been a given. Much, if not all this type of discussion centers around the civilian track.

Are you sure it's a "majority" though? Ive run into plenty of former AD, reserve, or gaurd that didn't fly tactical jet/F-teens but still managed to get hired. IOW, multi crew/tanker/transport get hired, just like fighter pilots do.

Daniel Larusso

I should clarify that I meant all military pilots not just fighter pilots, but upping the mins much beyond 1500 would axe out a lot of the guys I've known over the years that are at majors. My main point was that with mil peeps being such a large focus for so long it does have an effect on the mins that isn't always considered by the civilian side of the field.

rickair7777

I think the focus of the discussion was the TPIC requirement.

Successful military guys will usually have at least 1000-1500 TPIC regardless of platform.

Thedude

I find it comical that we have a few people in this thread that are either students, lowtime or relatively new F/Os trying to tell the ones that have been around for a while, how the system works.

xjtguy

As mentioned, ALWAYS been a given. IIRC, DAL's mins previous were 1200TT and 1000 turbine and a multi-comm without a centerline thrust restriction. Not exactly hard to figure out what demographic that opens it up to. Yes, we all know that most tactical jet pilots will get maybe 1800 hrs at the end of a 10 year commitment with a high sortie count and applicable conversion applied per the specific airline's guidance. Assuming no IP, etc.

When I posted about what NS, and other UAL hiring people said about the "average WM newhire" flight times, I should of specified that was for a civilian newhire.

As you know though, not ALL have the TPIC req. At the companies that DON'T have it, it simply separates "competetive" from simply "qualified".

Assuming other factors excluded.

Airhoss

Welcome to the internut...

Heck we've got Mr. Skyhigh here who's never worked for or even interviewed at a major airline and gives out free career advice by the metric ton and there are actually people who buy off on his BS like it was the gospel.

What was it that PT Barnum said about one being born ever second......He'd have LOVED the internet!

Daniel Larusso

I thnk the discussion has had many fronts, my comments were in relation to the questions about why major airlines typically have minimums that are around what a lot of regionals have. The implication seemed to be that it was primarily to allow them to hire people from certain demographics. While that may ultimately occur, I was just pointing out that biggest reason the mins have been like that for years has to do with the biggest demographic major airlines have targeted over the years, military pilots. Civilians have never been hired in great numbers until the last 10-12 years when the available pool of mil guys began to shrink.

xjtguy

True, however, the reason that UAL did the drop to 350 FW PIC TT minimum WASN'T to accommodate military pilots. One would have to be slightly naive to think that. Otherwise, EVERY other legacy would have followed suit.

To take it to an extreme, say that for whatever reason (budget cuts, whatever) the average tactical jet pilot would come off 10 years with 6-700 TT. You could bet that DAL would have been the first to drop their mins.

Late 90's most Legacy newhire classes trended toward the average of a 50-50 mix. Again, average. Closer to 15 years.

Daniel Larusso

I was referring to the last big hiring push which I suppose did start closer to 15 years ago, time flies! As for the rest, my comments on military pilots were in response to whomever asked why regionals and majors have similar mins in some cases and in general I think what I said is true. As for UA, clearly they had a lower min, but for me at least it's unclear why exactly that was. There's a simple, obvious answer that it allowed them to hire people they liked for whatever reasons (nepotism, EEOC, employees from other departments, interns, etc).

I'm curious if anyone knows when exactly that min started though, because I don't. I have a hunch that it predates the EEOC era because I've met several UA pilots who were hired with zero time in the 60's. That would lead me to believe there was a shortage and that UA lowered their mins quite a bit before taking the drastic step of ab initio. Is that where it came from and it never changed back till 1998? I personally don't know, maybe a UA guy who knows could comment. My comments on this come from a position of adding context as after reading numerous threads on stuff like this I think the corners are pretty well drawn and fingers are in ears. I don't want this tangent to go on and on although its been quite cordial, I was just trying to add a little pepper to the stew.

rickair7777

The 1000 TPIC requirement exists because a good fighter pilot who does everything he's supposed to might not have much more than that. The ATP rule might force a few fighter guys to go rent 152's on weekends (which they can afford to do).

Some airlines require only 1000 turbine SIC. That is usually minimum, but not competitive, but it allows the airline to selectively hire anyone they want out of the right seat of 135 metroliner or king air....if they choose to do so.

Nobody (US airlines) has ever required many thousands of TPIC hours...that would eliminate almost all military guys unless they do a full 20. Additionally some majors at times prefer to hire regional CAs who have 1000-2000 hours...they've demonstrated the ability to stay out of trouble as PIC, but have not gotten so set in their ways or far removed from a training environment that they'll be hard to fit into a new mold.

DAL was even hiring people with 500-ish TPIC during the last wave because they were loosing too many new-hires to SWA, UPS, FDX.