slammer1906

No, I think any breathing human being knows his own venacular.

Stratosphere

We are all aware of the injustices done in the past. The fact is I don't think anyone would have a problem given the same qualifications that a white male would be passed over in favor of a minority/woman. I personally have issues with standards being lowered sometimes dramatically to meet what amounts to a quota in order to get to that magic number or percentage a company wants. My cousin was caught up in that UAL hiring in the late 80s he wasn't given an interview either and he had graduated from the USCG academy and was a C-130 commander flying search and rescue in Alaska but UAL did hire a woman with 350 hrs with no turbine time. My cousin went on to Alaska Airlines but it is not only aviation where this occurs. I had a close friend when I was in college who wanted to get on with the Phoenix Fire Dept..He had a fire degree and was near the top in the physical agility tests he tried for 3 years in a row and was continually passed over for hispanic candidates who scored much lower. I don't know about you but if a woman can't haul a 90 pound dummy out of a burning building I don't want her being a fireman or a state trooper who can't make even 70 on the written exam. Think it doesn't happen? Think Again! I don't like discrimination on any level. Qualifications are there for a reason if you meet them fine if you don't you don't need to be there. Funny thing is that I am friends with a black pilot ex navy who is more then qualified and he actually hates affirmative action he says people look at him sometimes and wonder if he "earned" his spot at a major.

xjtguy

Well make up your mind, you "don't remember making the statement or you know your own vernacular?

atpwannabe

Affirmative action originally intended for businesses and colleges to actively seek equally qualified individuals who are in a minority group, including women. In other words, individuals with equal abilities should have equal opportunities. This sounds appropriate and is something we want our federal government to enforce. The purposes and intents of affirmative action were and are reasonable to redress discriminatory hiring and university admission practices. But, as with all good intentions, the results have been mixed. The idea that standards and qualifications were "lowered" so that minorities and women could be hired is ludicrous.

You know this nation's racial history is what it is. There's no getting around it. Habits, practices & mindsets die hard. And believe it or not that still holds true to this day. We're only 150 years if that removed from slavery. But then think of all the legislation, and artificial wharfs & sandbars that were place in our way to keep us from sharing in the American dream. Again.....I say, had this nation addressed its race issue at the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th, where would we be as a nation? For example, the Supreme Court of 1873 said that black people could sleep, eat and go anywhere they wanted. The Supreme Court of 1883 said, "No...they can't" and declared the previous ruling unconstitutional. We, as a nation, went backwards as oppose to moving forward. Then, 81 years later...we get the Voting Rights Act of 1964. Then..in the late 60's and 70's we start to integrate schools & in some cases the workplace. All that human and intellectual capital.....WASTED...on both sides!!!


atp

USMCFLYR

You are incorrect that standards have not been lowered in the past.
It may still not be the fact (I'll use women in tactical military aviation as an example that I lived through), but don't be fooled into believing that it never happened.
I'll agree with you about equally qualified people being held to the same standard and given equal opportunity. This society can always works towards the goal; but there will always be injustices of some sort. People, and thus societies, are flawed.

You know what this world's racial history is right?
Let's even take it back to a smidgen of the OP's original question of American Indian heritage. What do you have to say of the *injustices* perpetrated amongst the Native Americans - or does it not matter if such things happen in the same ethnic groups?

I had a family member visit from the northeast this Christmas season. She asked about the origins of the state nickname 'Sooners'. I related to her the story of the landrush for the unassigned lands in the Indian Territory. This prompted her to get all huffy and wanted to talk about the *taking* of Indian lands. I asked her where the *white* people of her part of the country got their lands I also asked her if she thought that the native indian populations had ever fought over territory or natural resources. I think the blank face and garbled excuses that followed said it all.

xjtguy

It's still happening. People at various nursing programs in certain areas are experiencing it as we speak

atpwannabe

Granted. Standards may have been lowered only to support the notion about what was being touted and that being that there were no or very little qualified minorities to fill certain positions. It's sort of like someone adjusting or fudging the numbers to agree/coincide with what's being paraded as facts. I just asked my Dad, who is 80 years old, well read, and holds a PhD in Mathematics and Psychology of Learning from Michigan State, if he was aware of any companies, school boards or businesses ever lowering their standards/qualifications to hire minorities? He answered with a resounding...NO! He went on to say that these entities had ways of getting around of meeting any guidelines or quotas that was set by Affirmative Action.

Agreed. We see that today in the "wars" around the world.


Again...granted! However, in my and in your example, what or should I say "who" is the common thread? White people!

In all seriousness though, things (particularly in hiring practices) have improved. Are we where we should be? Not by a long shot, but it's getting better.

Finally, from personal experience, when I interviewed for a number of entry level Airport Operations positions at DEN, SHV, MCO & MSY from 2003-2005, it was interesting in talking to the HR reps on the phone. They sounded so interested. One of the aforementioned told me directly on the phone that they wanted me to come and work for them at their airport. Obviously, I was stoked. When I walked through the door, it was a totally different story. After the interview, all I did was smh. Mind you, I hold a BS in Air Studies from Riddle; had worked for Delta and Comair as a ramp agent; worked as Arpt Coordinator for Marion County, FL and as an Ops Agent for KPBI and knew FAR's Part 77, 107, 108 & 139 like the back of my hand.


atp

xjtguy

Is that what this was about? Having to lower the minimums as a workaround to find enough other than WM pilots to satisfy a quota number?

EEOC Targets Jobs at United Airlines - Los Angeles Times

Sorry, but at that time there were PLENTY of pilots that were not only qualified, but competitive as well. Lowering the mins was a complete joke.

In late 2000 UAL upped the mins ATP numbers. Weird, isn't it?

slammer1906

XJT, what are your quals?

slammer1906

I don't remember making the statement, but I know my brain on paper when I see it...