View Poll Results: How will you vote on the PNCL TA?
YES, PAYCUTS, DOWNGRADES AND FURLOUGH 1,500 PILOTS PLEASE
31
16.23%
NO, BURN IT TO THE GROUND.
160
83.77%
Voters: 191. You may not vote on this poll
PNCL TA: YES to FURLOUGH, or NO BURN IT DOWN?
12-18-2012, 07:57 PM
#11
Rollin'
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: AA Airbus
Posts: 829
All legacies make more than VX, except US Air pilots who made numb decisions to get stuck under LOA 93. VX didn't undercut the legacies when it started, the legacies were already all in post-bankruptcy era contracts when management set VX rates. Today, all those legacies have improved their pay into a much better position than the post 9/11 contracts, and much better than VX. VX didn't hinder UAL, CAL, nor Delta. US Air is the only one, but they have their own internal issues that caused their current LOA 93 predicament.
12-18-2012, 07:57 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
All legacies make more than VX, except US Air pilots who made numb decisions to get stuck under LOA 93. When VX started, the legacies were already all in post-bankruptcy era contracts when management set VX rates. That was the landscape the industry was in, post 9/11, high oil and a recession. Today, all those legacies have improved their pay into a much better position than the post 9/11 contracts, and much better than VX. VX didn't hinder UAL, CAL, nor Delta. US Air is the only one, but they have their own internal issues that caused their current LOA 93 predicament.
12-18-2012, 08:04 PM
#14
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
It will be ironic if Delta has a "flow through" part to this deal. Nothing like treating an employee much worse than they deserve at at regional airline, getting them mad, cynical and ready for payback, then welcoming them on to a 64 to 370 million dollar piece of equipment and handing them the throttles to burn $35,000 worth of fuel in the first hour. (not that it is easy for an FO to blow off a flight plan on a wide body ... just saying that the airplane will do .92 if you shove them up there)
12-18-2012, 08:04 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,920
Honestly, I don't have VX's initial payrates or QOL package. I only have the latest one. I don't know what it was in 2007 or 2008.
But this is a sidestep. VX's size is too small to make a negotiating imprint on a carrier the size of Delta, United, Continental, American. Delta, United, and Continental got a new pilot contract with wages far higher than any other airline, and they did it without having management saying "look at VX, they have 52 airplanes, and they are flying it for XX." United pilots got management to agree that a 12 yr A320 captain should be getting $197/hr this year.
The same cannot be said for Pinnacle's predicament. Pinnacle is right now the same order, the same size, as other regionals like Skywest, ASA, Republic, Eagle, ExpressJet. All those airlines are now or will soon be in section 6 negotiations. What happens with Pinnacle now will definitely setup the industry landscape for future regional operations. It will definitely set up the landscape for DCI regionals, there's no doubt. Delta is dealing with Pinnacle personally, and once this is set and if it passes, then Delta will use this against all other regionals in the DCI portfolio.
But this is a sidestep. VX's size is too small to make a negotiating imprint on a carrier the size of Delta, United, Continental, American. Delta, United, and Continental got a new pilot contract with wages far higher than any other airline, and they did it without having management saying "look at VX, they have 52 airplanes, and they are flying it for XX." United pilots got management to agree that a 12 yr A320 captain should be getting $197/hr this year.
The same cannot be said for Pinnacle's predicament. Pinnacle is right now the same order, the same size, as other regionals like Skywest, ASA, Republic, Eagle, ExpressJet. All those airlines are now or will soon be in section 6 negotiations. What happens with Pinnacle now will definitely setup the industry landscape for future regional operations. It will definitely set up the landscape for DCI regionals, there's no doubt. Delta is dealing with Pinnacle personally, and once this is set and if it passes, then Delta will use this against all other regionals in the DCI portfolio.
12-19-2012, 07:44 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CL-65 captain
Posts: 2,244
since you have it can you please post it on here for the rest of us to see? For all we know the only changes could be a 12 year CA scale and a 10 year FO scale with CA's taking a cut and FO's getting a slight raise as a bone.
12-19-2012, 07:56 AM
#20
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Don't forget that all FOs and some captains are guaranteed to be out of a job when reading it.
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