Pinnacle Reveals Tenuous Nature ... (Article)
10-04-2012, 08:44 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CL-65 captain
Posts: 2,244
Agreed. It's not like there was a major hiring wave in the past 10 years or so. Only a little movement. Where were they gonna go? There hasn't been enough movement to clean out even close to all the senior pilots flying for regionals. It's mainlines ultimate goal to transfer all mainline flying to regional flying for the most part, slowly but surely. Some would'be chose to stay anyway had there been any substanscial movement. A pilot, no matter regional or mainline, should ever be punished for being "too experienced." Even going to mainline is not a safe bet.
10-04-2012, 08:51 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CL-65 captain
Posts: 2,244
Nope the top of a regional airline seniority list collects substandard pilots over time. Say a class of 10 newhires is hired and the best 9 of them are able to move on to something better, only the bottom 1 remains. That bottom 1 continues to move up the list as the "best 9" from other newhire classes also leaves. Over time these "bottom 1"s who can't move on to anywhere better end up collecting at the top. This results in the bottom of the list having roughly 10% substandard pilots and the top of the list heading towards 100% substandard pilots.
This is where the term "lifer" comes from.
This is where the term "lifer" comes from.
And now, to rub salt in the wound, high times/experience that just a few years ago and were considered "competitive" PIC times or ratings etc well above the mins are being thrown out the window so now there are even MORE pilots to compete against these days.
10-04-2012, 10:42 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: Airbus button pusher
Posts: 2,448
Don't forget adding more 70 seat jets that delta pilots won't even fly. Gode I hope united doesn't cave in....
10-04-2012, 11:06 AM
#84
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Nope the top of a regional airline seniority list collects substandard pilots over time. Say a class of 10 newhires is hired and the best 9 of them are able to move on to something better, only the bottom 1 remains. That bottom 1 continues to move up the list as the "best 9" from other newhire classes also leaves. Over time these "bottom 1"s who can't move on to anywhere better end up collecting at the top. This results in the bottom of the list having roughly 10% substandard pilots and the top of the list heading towards 100% substandard pilots.
This is where the term "lifer" comes from.
This is where the term "lifer" comes from.
10-04-2012, 11:07 AM
#85
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
10-04-2012, 11:10 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 195
Sure Delta is parking 50 seaters, but they are adding BIGGER jets to replace them. What happens next when the larger RJ's aren't profitable anymore? Will you allow the regionals to fly DC-9's, or 717's. No insult to you, but that TA was more or less a joke. Why, on this planet, would DAL want you to fly a 767 for whatever you make, when in the future a pilot half your age will fly it for less than half of what you're making? It is the future of our business. Maybe farther away than we might think, but it is coming.
10-04-2012, 11:14 AM
#87
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Sure Delta is parking 50 seaters, but they are adding BIGGER jets to replace them. What happens next when the larger RJ's aren't profitable anymore? Will you allow the regionals to fly DC-9's, or 717's. No insult to you, but that TA was more or less a joke. Why, on this planet, would DAL want you to fly a 767 for whatever you make, when in the future a pilot half your age will fly it for less than half of what you're making? It is the future of our business. Maybe farther away than we might think, but it is coming.
No offense taken, & none intended with this response. You haven't presented facts as I have. Your claim is that management wants to outsource all domestic flying. I presented facts to prove otherwise. Delta has yet to order a single additional 76 seat jet. Perhaps you should ask a Comair pilot just how much of a "joke" the contract is. What you're presenting, is your assumption and opinion.
Last edited by johnso29; 10-04-2012 at 11:35 AM.
10-04-2012, 11:14 AM
#88
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
There were 10 in my new hire class. 1 moved on and got furloughed immediately. 1 is an eternal FO. The other 8 are still here. Got caught in that cycle. I know that since we have been here so long that means you are a better stick than us, have better social skills and more education, less DUI's and busted check rides, and will have Fred Smith meet you at the jetbridge the second you hit 1000 TPIC with his hand outstretched welcoming you to Purple....
And now, to rub salt in the wound, high times/experience that just a few years ago and were considered "competitive" PIC times or ratings etc well above the mins are being thrown out the window so now there are even MORE pilots to compete against these days.
And now, to rub salt in the wound, high times/experience that just a few years ago and were considered "competitive" PIC times or ratings etc well above the mins are being thrown out the window so now there are even MORE pilots to compete against these days.
There were 15 in my new hire class... 8 years later there are only 4 left. 3 of them are idiots. 1 is a great guy and got hired when he was 50... no reason to attempt to move on in his case.
10-04-2012, 11:15 AM
#89
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Delta has yet to order a single additional 76 seat jet. The ink has been dry for over 3 months. They have however inked the deal on 88 B717's and more MD90's that will take us to 58 MD90's. A recent SEC filing shows the mainline fleet increasing to 793 airplanes. We are currently at 720.
10-04-2012, 11:16 AM
#90
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Sure Delta is parking 50 seaters, but they are adding BIGGER jets to replace them. What happens next when the larger RJ's aren't profitable anymore? Will you allow the regionals to fly DC-9's, or 717's. No insult to you, but that TA was more or less a joke. Why, on this planet, would DAL want you to fly a 767 for whatever you make, when in the future a pilot half your age will fly it for less than half of what you're making? It is the future of our business. Maybe farther away than we might think, but it is coming.
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