Pinnacle Reveals Tenuous Nature ... (Article)
09-30-2012, 04:56 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: e190
Posts: 929
You are paying your pilots less then they could earn at home depot and you are whining that they are too expensive. GTFO
09-30-2012, 07:03 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Grounded
Posts: 451
09-30-2012, 07:36 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: Taco Rocket Operator
Posts: 2,485
Some have been making the point that by flying outsourced American flying with more than 50 seats, Mr Red Vette would setting a precedent, screwing mainline employees, lowering the bar, blah blah blah.....and would be a hypocrite for doing so, and maybe should refuse to fly any aircraft with more than 50 seats, or quit his job since he thinks the Pinnacle pilots should fall on their sword for "the good of the profession"......
09-30-2012, 09:35 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 687
Who has better pay and work rules? Also, incase you are blind, everyone has a lot of 50's (other than tiny compass or gojetsssss).
Those old 50's will get swapped to 70/90s and the fleet will be reduced. That's happening everywhere. At least we are not flying at a loss just to get in the door.
Those old 50's will get swapped to 70/90s and the fleet will be reduced. That's happening everywhere. At least we are not flying at a loss just to get in the door.
09-30-2012, 11:12 PM
#57
patience
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,068
Who has better pay and work rules? Also, incase you are blind, everyone has a lot of 50's (other than tiny compass or gojetsssss).
Those old 50's will get swapped to 70/90s and the fleet will be reduced. That's happening everywhere. At least we are not flying at a loss just to get in the door.
Those old 50's will get swapped to 70/90s and the fleet will be reduced. That's happening everywhere. At least we are not flying at a loss just to get in the door.
10-01-2012, 01:05 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Posts: 495
Has anyone seen the books? No, so no one knows what the financials are concerning any one set of aircraft flying for any one partner. All that can be said with certainty is that taken as a whole, Skywest airlines is profitable. Something that cannot be said for Pinnacle.
10-01-2012, 02:19 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: UniCal 737 FO
Posts: 413
That wasn't the point of the discussion. Mr Red Vette was whining about Pinnacle pilots lowering the bar, setting precedents, screwing everybody else, blah blah blah....
Some have been making the point that by flying outsourced American flying with more than 50 seats, Mr Red Vette would setting a precedent, screwing mainline employees, lowering the bar, blah blah blah.....and would be a hypocrite for doing so, and maybe should refuse to fly any aircraft with more than 50 seats, or quit his job since he thinks the Pinnacle pilots should fall on their sword for "the good of the profession"......
Some have been making the point that by flying outsourced American flying with more than 50 seats, Mr Red Vette would setting a precedent, screwing mainline employees, lowering the bar, blah blah blah.....and would be a hypocrite for doing so, and maybe should refuse to fly any aircraft with more than 50 seats, or quit his job since he thinks the Pinnacle pilots should fall on their sword for "the good of the profession"......
10-02-2012, 07:50 AM
#60
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: MD-80 FO
Posts: 91
The pilot profession has become a zero sum game in the United States. Maybe it always has been.... but now more than ever.... airline managements have put everyone in a zero sum situation.
By this I mean the only way someone does well is at the expense of someone else. Good fortune is not created..... it is simply transferred.
I understand that a career in our field, particularly in this millennium, is stressful and worrisome. A decade ago everyone was talking about a 30 year career or more at a major airline. It was not improbable to get on at a Major airline before your 30th birthday (perhaps well before) and there was no discussion of raising the retirement age.
The only people considering a full career at a Regional airline were those who did not graduate or attend college thus making them unable to meet the application requirements. The people who chose this path were happier than they would have been in other careers not requiring a degree and flight training schools were all to eager to market an airline career to the 80% of the population not holding a B.S. or B.A.
Fast forward to today.... We only have 3 major airlines left. There are fewer Low Cost Carriers (SWA /Airtran merger). There is less opportunity for advancement..... (i.e. upgrade at your regional to try to get on with one of the few remaining career targets.) The only opportunity many see for anything to advance them and prepare them for their escape from hell is the demise of a competitor and transfer of assets. (more planes at my regional).
This predicament is not providing the happiness that this career was supposed to deploy.
Many years ago I worked at Comair. It was a regional that I looked at as nothing more than a stepping stone to make it to my major airline job before I was 30. This didn’t happen. As we all know Comair ceased operations days ago. It was a good job for a lot of people who never looked to go anywhere else. Many, if not most, that fit this category did not have the college degree and were not able to apply to the Delta, United, NWA, CAL, etc’s of the world. The were marketed training from the Comair Academy or other similar places and had good jobs they viewed as long term careers at Comair.
What does unemployment feel like right now? I bet it’s hell. Not much of any hiring unless you want to go live in a third world country far away from family and home. Likewise, telling Pinnacle pilots to tank their airline for the greater good is nonsense. If they wish to do so.... fine. But it is not for anyone else to say.
There are thousands of RJ pilots. THOUSANDS. And most of them are all trying to pack themselves in to a tiny hole of hiring that might happen next year for a few hundred jobs at our last remaining Legacy airlines.
If the competitive nature of the regional industry has put Comair and Pinnacle among others in the crosshairs because their pilots are too senior and therefore cost more than pilots at Compass..... Perhaps the answer is cutting the longevity. In other words, take the pay scale that you have and erase everything above year 8. Everyone with less than 8 years would see no change and everyone above that would be at 8 year pay.
I know that senior guys would shudder at this and expect everyone to take a percentage cut all the way down. But everyone is not the issue with viability. Longevity is the issue with viability. Spending a career at a minor league team and longevity raises is the issue.
This will never happen of course. Unions work for the senior guys. Their 2% is more money than the bottom guys 2%. Cutting longevity off at 8 years would significantly cut union revenue.
But I hope people that read this website can at least come to a conclusion that their is a zero sum game that forever pits pilots against one another completely destroying collective gains and that someday newly formed airlines like Compass will be the Comair of tomorrow. Thinking outside the box and understanding the current reality is a must to try to ovoid the same fate.
I personally dissuaded as many young guys as I could to not pursue this career without a degree. I told them that they would just become a human obstacle for someone else to upgrade and move on and that eventually they would end up clinging to their job while management demanded pay cuts with no good way out.
By this I mean the only way someone does well is at the expense of someone else. Good fortune is not created..... it is simply transferred.
I understand that a career in our field, particularly in this millennium, is stressful and worrisome. A decade ago everyone was talking about a 30 year career or more at a major airline. It was not improbable to get on at a Major airline before your 30th birthday (perhaps well before) and there was no discussion of raising the retirement age.
The only people considering a full career at a Regional airline were those who did not graduate or attend college thus making them unable to meet the application requirements. The people who chose this path were happier than they would have been in other careers not requiring a degree and flight training schools were all to eager to market an airline career to the 80% of the population not holding a B.S. or B.A.
Fast forward to today.... We only have 3 major airlines left. There are fewer Low Cost Carriers (SWA /Airtran merger). There is less opportunity for advancement..... (i.e. upgrade at your regional to try to get on with one of the few remaining career targets.) The only opportunity many see for anything to advance them and prepare them for their escape from hell is the demise of a competitor and transfer of assets. (more planes at my regional).
This predicament is not providing the happiness that this career was supposed to deploy.
Many years ago I worked at Comair. It was a regional that I looked at as nothing more than a stepping stone to make it to my major airline job before I was 30. This didn’t happen. As we all know Comair ceased operations days ago. It was a good job for a lot of people who never looked to go anywhere else. Many, if not most, that fit this category did not have the college degree and were not able to apply to the Delta, United, NWA, CAL, etc’s of the world. The were marketed training from the Comair Academy or other similar places and had good jobs they viewed as long term careers at Comair.
What does unemployment feel like right now? I bet it’s hell. Not much of any hiring unless you want to go live in a third world country far away from family and home. Likewise, telling Pinnacle pilots to tank their airline for the greater good is nonsense. If they wish to do so.... fine. But it is not for anyone else to say.
There are thousands of RJ pilots. THOUSANDS. And most of them are all trying to pack themselves in to a tiny hole of hiring that might happen next year for a few hundred jobs at our last remaining Legacy airlines.
If the competitive nature of the regional industry has put Comair and Pinnacle among others in the crosshairs because their pilots are too senior and therefore cost more than pilots at Compass..... Perhaps the answer is cutting the longevity. In other words, take the pay scale that you have and erase everything above year 8. Everyone with less than 8 years would see no change and everyone above that would be at 8 year pay.
I know that senior guys would shudder at this and expect everyone to take a percentage cut all the way down. But everyone is not the issue with viability. Longevity is the issue with viability. Spending a career at a minor league team and longevity raises is the issue.
This will never happen of course. Unions work for the senior guys. Their 2% is more money than the bottom guys 2%. Cutting longevity off at 8 years would significantly cut union revenue.
But I hope people that read this website can at least come to a conclusion that their is a zero sum game that forever pits pilots against one another completely destroying collective gains and that someday newly formed airlines like Compass will be the Comair of tomorrow. Thinking outside the box and understanding the current reality is a must to try to ovoid the same fate.
I personally dissuaded as many young guys as I could to not pursue this career without a degree. I told them that they would just become a human obstacle for someone else to upgrade and move on and that eventually they would end up clinging to their job while management demanded pay cuts with no good way out.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Airsupport
Regional
71
07-14-2008 12:14 PM
