flysooner9

Your forgetting people are and will be leaving left and right.

amcnd

Does'nt make much of a diff. Still have to have capital and solid credit to lease planes...

tmtbiker

Not to mention that we are seriously short on staffing right now, so PBS might just allow them to operate normally with current staffing levels instead of furloughs. Also, how are they going to handle a few hundred pilots leaving the line to go to the schoolhouse for new airplanes?

lakehouse

not sure where you work, but AMR has a much much much better chance to get a huge aircraft order, even with all the ones they now have on order, when compared to a stand alone RJ airline.

Qotsaautopilot

Signing a contract based on people leaving... That worked well before right?

To add I copied this from the discussion on the apa no vote:

Congrats to the APA pilots who voted no. Had we voted no 8-10 years ago at USAIR, UAL (me), and DAL, the industry would probably not have descended into the death spiral that it has become.

I voted no every time at UAL. If we had torpedoed UAL 9 years ago, I would probably now be a 9 year FO or Captain at another major airline in the US, making far more money than I would be as a Captain at UAL right now. Unfortunately all the ALPA represented pilots caved in to the 1113 threats that our companies used, and these threats were backed up by the ALPA cronies.

It is my belief (also worth 2 cents) that you guys finally did the right thing. I only wish we had the same cajones 9 years ago.

Section 1113 of the bankruptcy code was put into the US bankruptcy code in 1983 to PROTECT the interests of union laborers in court. It is not a threat, it is there to protect you and your interests. By voting no, you are allowing the law to be followed. I wish we had done the same. In the end, after two "voluntary" pay cuts and then voluntarily giving up our pensions, we ended up far below the companies original term sheet.

LEEDX:
I agree with most of what you said except that the judge will go by the term sheet. The judge is required by 1113 to look at the haircut that he imposed on other creditors, and make sure that if he abrogates the union contract, that it is in line with those cuts. Are there any recent precedents with pilots in recent bankruptcy proceedings? Unfortunately no. None of the rest of us in the industry had the cajones to stay in the game, and see the other guys cards, We folded.

Well done to you, the pilots at American, and good luck.

buddies8

AE management has not dealt or asked for reductions from any creditor.
AE management is trying to impose the concessionary contract that the MEC passed in 2011 when we still had 2.5 years to go on current contract.
The AE ALPA MEC was in secret negotiations with AE management without the pilot group being aware.
The AE MEC held a Chicago rigged recall process by having the meeting 22 miles away from base and paid for there friends for passes and dinner at the baseball game. This recall meeting was held over memorial weekend so the MEC could keep the CHICAGO reps in office because they are in the MEC's back pocket.
The Pilots of AE should VOTE NO because of all the hidden side deals already agreed to by the MEC and Negotiation Committee, such as if, PBS is not agreed to in one year, every pilot will take a 7% pay cut.
The ALPA MEC at AE is in the back pocket of the management as is half the LEC's. ALPA National in managements back pocket is a given here at AE.

buddies8

copied from another forum thread

IT IS THE TA OF SUMMER 2011.
As far as I am concerned, all they did recently in negotiations was let the company get everything it wants and the MEC hide it from us in the way they present the 1113 compromise language. Another scam as the scope scam.

We have already have had numerous understanding of the first 1113/AIP be revised with the second updated 1113/AIP which is even worse than the first posting of the AIP by CUJO (ALPA Supplied).

When will this pilot group wake up and realize the MEC/NC and the LEC Team Tony LOSERS are lying to the pilots or at least misrepresenting the facts or omitting items from the pilots to know.

VOTE NO
TAKE IT TO THE JUDGE
TEAM TONY---RESIGN NOW

RyanP

NO, you're wrong.

Read it again. We are all taking a pay cut if this turd gets passed.

• Min 1.5% IAI raise gone for 2 years (3% cut)
• Per diem cut (.10/hr)
• Deadhead pay cut to 50%
• PBS = HUGE pay cuts we can't even see yet with loss of transitions/conflicts etc..

These may seem small but they add up to THOUSANDS of dollars per year. Call it what you want, it may not be a "rate" cut, but it's still a pay cut in my book when I don't get the money in my checks anymore.

Lost time off with this crap PTO bank

If PBS is not implemented within one year we owe the company 8 Million. 7% pay cut (Dave Ryter- Conference call)

The second PBS is implemented it will reduce our staffing needs by approx 12% according to PBS vendors.. so goodbye higher paid junior Captains, back to the right seat. PAY CUT.. Junior FO's on the street possibly..

samballs

Pbs is horrible. Only people that think its good are asa pilots. But there brain washed so they don't count. The dh pay sucks, but it will really suck on the lax to ord. Or lax to ny, and vice versa

lakehouse

they seem to already be over staffing the NYC bases, I guess they are getting ready for both furloughs and deadheading them from JFK to DFW LAX to do flying with cheap deadheads.