lakehouse

everyone please think long and hard about the benefits of voting no, how our union might possibly be very corrupt and fill our inbox's with their propaganda. How we might save ourselves from 6 years of a huge hit on our pay via softmoney, and maybe even do this industry some good by voting it down. Stop fearing the unknown, and realize that this TA is just as much unknown of an outcome as the 1113 process. The only thing known for sure is that the duration is 6 years, nothing more about fleet or any REAL job security.

buddies8

About 8 years ago American Eagle hired an outside Public Relations company to present American Eagles case to the public and the pilots of American Eagle.
That company is ALPA American Eagle Master Executive Chairman and Vice Chairman.

The company very seldom makes comments to public, that function, management delegated to there hired firm ALPA AE MEC. Death is upon us, the glass is half empty, we are running out of gas, the end is near, get my drift. That is the ALPA AE MEC. Only proper place for them is in the TOILET.

VOTE NO
TAKE IT TO THE JUDGE
GROW A PAIR

bgmann

I'm an FO that needs to be edumacated. So edumacate me. Please... What am I missing?

SnoJet440

I believe his is talking about why you are a yes vote. Spell it out for us.

love2av8

I'm a no vote. A rejection of this TA does not necessarily mean AMR will automatically file that crappy term sheet. Why on earth would we accept the company's "first" negotiated offer? Hello negotiating 101 - kick it back and send a message - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! They are not fixing the problem that got us here to begin with.
The MEC is playing right into he company's hands. What he company really wants is PBS so they put a very low value on it then add a bunch of deal breakers like taking a week of vacation and throw in PBS with a very low value. The MEC fell for it. They said no you can't take our vacation but and by the way you undervalued PBS so lets make a deal. Company hot exactly what it wanted all along and the MEC acts like they dis us a huge favor! The more value on PBS the worse out work rules are going to be.
If the company were to file that latest term sheet and than refuse to negotiate during the 1113 process, how well do you think that would I with the judge? Judge Lane is no fool. If AMR seeks to impose archaic terms after reaching a consensual agreement with our MEC for something else that they acknowledge they can accept, then the judge will see thru that.
Can't you see that a NO vote is not an automatic implantation of that crappy term sheet? It is just the start of another process. Please people, lets stand together and grow a backbone!

32LTangoTen

Please edumacate me too. You need to be educated. J/k

But no seriously. Me and possibly some others want to hear good points for why it is a yes. Why it's beneficial to vote yes. What are we missing that your/we are going to get out of it?

Remember... The captains who waited 9-10 years to upgrade thought in 2002 they'd only be here for a year or two, just like you mentioned. Things happens with the industry. The corporation. Outsourcing. Fleet shrinkage. The economy. And unfortunately other crazy things like 9/11. I would strongly suggest you be very careful stating you'll be here for another 2 years. Especially if you aren't competitive to go to a major or major cargo airline by being a FO.

Dont think that those things I mention in italics are prevented by this contract.

Edit: I just realized that your likely a captain so ya ur likely competitive to go on. By why screw the group?

buddies8

From my understanding other than AE management giving the MEC a sheet of paper titled 1113, they management have nothing filed in the BK. AE management has not spent one day in court, so in order for AE to begin they will have to submit a business plan and the why's for the cuts.

A NO vote does nothing negative to the pilots since this is all being done outside of the court jurisdiction. A no vote will require the company if it chooses to go to court and file. This what AE/AMR want to avoid in doing because it will light the fires at APA and every other union at AA when they actually see the business plan for AE.

A vote NO only pushes management where they dont want to go, they would have to either sweeten the pot or roll the dice on AE going to court.

AE cannot justify there position in BK court because every other regional management is stating publicly that AE is the number one profitable regional today with its current contracts.

If AE is to get screwed over it can only happen by AA/AMR, so they would have to take an opposite position to the one AA/AMR have taken on AE and that wont happen.

So a vote NO does nothing but go back to the table.

32LTangoTen

We have 1500 flights a day. It's not going to disappear in a few years. Where's it going to go? Half or one-quarter of our flying will be very difficult for an regional to pick up. Remember some airlines (pinnacolaba) has no money to invest in an expansion. Psa just announced vacancy and hiring.

If AMR wants feed. Which it HAS to get for the AA flights, they need people to fly da planes.

Garton knows this and that's why (a year ago?) he sent a multiple page document arguing 1500 hour rule and rest. They know it.

be76flyer

What might be a good point for somebody to vote yes might be a point for somebody to vote no. Think about it like this, pay banding might not be a bad thing for a older CA in the EMB that doesn't want to go to the CRJ but can now get CRJ pay. But for somebody like me pay banding is a bad thing because I will never get CRJ pay even if I fly the CRJ. For somebody with less then 7-8 years left the TA is going to be better then anything we get from the judge. Some points suck for everyone and some are good for everyone, but most can go either way based on the person.

The Chow

I found This quote from the latest union email to be just rich considering what happened at Comair in '09....


Guaranteed aircraft is the same thing as guaranteed jobs; it is a specified allotment of aircraft that yield a corresponding number of employed pilots.

Samballs have you seen this yet?