coryk

When they release the results of the NPRM?

skylover

When they release the final rule

hemaybedid

You're definitely confusing your quote with in house upgrade requirements. They're speaking of FO's not having an ATP and not meeting these requirements listed in FAR 61.159:

(4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least—
(i) 100 hours of cross-country flight time; and
(ii) 25 hours of night flight time.

The concern I have read about this section of the FAR's elsewhere, is that several FSDO's have recently raised issue with this section stating, "if the pilot doesn't have the priviliges to act as PIC (PIC type rating in an aircraft that requires it) they cannot act as PIC under the supervision of PIC for the purposes of this section. That would mean you could only use time as SIC in a non turbo jet aircraft and an aircraft under 12,500 lbs. gross weight, however, requiring a SIC to log time towards the ATP under this FAR.

Your company requirement for Captain upgrade is not involved. Those requirements I believe are completely at the discretion of the company. I've heard at GoJet the requirement for upgrade without any company time is 4500 TT adjusted with company time to 3500 TT. Correct me if I'm wrong. But that is one way they've kept their pilot costs so low. New guys with lots of time, one of which groups was United furloughs, upgrade quickly on the low side of the longevity scale and hopefully leave quickly. And most FO's get out before upgrade and the big pay bump either from being sick of waiting around or scared of the upgrade program that I've heard is more than a little shady.

goodyear859

Getting closer to the Aug 1 deadline....could be a real game
changer for the industry...any rumors out there?

coryk

I know before the NPRM was released the ARC wanted 500tt for college grads, 1000 for military guys.Then they released the proposed 1000/750 hour deal. With all the "pilot shortage" talk in the news lately, I bet the cave and drop the new mins. Just my guess.

BoilerUP

The lower your expectations are, the less your disappointment with what ends up actually becoming policy will be.

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer...just realistic.

Rotor2prop

Having all these "pilot shortage" stories running on all the major news networks just 2 weeks before the deadline was all part of the plan. I think we all know where this final rule is going to end up. I wouldn't doubt if it wasn't cut in half for all hour levels.

"All pilots completing an airline FO training program that meet the above hour requirements will be issued a frozen ATP with SIC only authorization until full experience requirements are met for acting as PIC at the ATP level."

OR

"All pilots hired before Aug 2013 need not meet these requirements to act as SIC in 121 ops"

I would bet something like this will be what we get.

Bellanca

It amazes me how many people at the regional don't have the 250 hours of PIC. I've personally known some people who were hired with really low time, but most still had at least 400 hours and should have met PIC mins...

Also, just something I've been curious about, are there any FO's floating around at the airline level that for whatever reason have lost/can't get a first class medical, and will no longer be able to fly for an airline once the ATP is required because they won't be able to exercise the privileges of that cert??

flyingreasemnky

You don't need a first class to get an ATP, just to exercise the privileges of it. Since they aren't the pic, they aren't exercising the privileges.

Bellanca

If acting as a 121 FO requires an ATP cert, then wouldn't an FO have to be able to exercise privileges of an ATP cert (including holding a First Class medical)?