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-   -   Big Decision (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/67107-big-decision.html)

IrishNJ 05-03-2012 07:18 AM

Speaking as an xjt guy, I think you are taking a BIG risk if you don't take the first offer you get ANYWHERE. I think they may very well move the goalposts on you by gradually increasing the required hours and you may never get called out of the pool.

They're already worried about getting all the current new hire FOs up to 1500 hours before the cutoff date, if there are more experienced Pinnacle and Eagle guys on the street soon, they may very take them before a no-part-121 guy. Additionally, it seems hiring may taper off somewhat unless we get more flying from somewhere, staffing has improved and they're mostly hiring to replace guys that leave.

That's my 2 cents

johnso29 05-03-2012 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by Joachim (Post 1180915)
Having to fanagle your schedule to make money is horse****. You should get paid decently by working and without being a scheduling loophole guru.

They do get paid decent. They just get paid more working the contract.

fullflank 05-03-2012 07:49 AM

Things must be getting really bad at RAH if PSA seems like a better place to work. Just be prepared for the grueling punishment that is our reserve. Maybe if we get a new contract, reserve rules might improve but I think we are at least 2 years from that. Good luck with your decision.

Ramprat 05-03-2012 08:13 PM


Originally Posted by fullflank (Post 1181106)
Things must be getting really bad at RAH if PSA seems like a better place to work. Just be prepared for the grueling punishment that is our reserve. Maybe if we get a new contract, reserve rules might improve but I think we are at least 2 years from that. Good luck with your decision.

And how is life once you are off the dreaded PSA reserve?

fullflank 05-04-2012 06:34 AM


Originally Posted by Ramprat (Post 1181585)
And how is life once you are off the dreaded PSA reserve?

Its better of course. We are still way behind other like awac, asa, comair, exj, shywest, horizon, and eagle with regards to pay and work rules. Days off is the common complaint around here.

WAVIT Inbound 05-04-2012 10:49 AM


Originally Posted by Yazzoo (Post 1180403)
but I'd rather upgrade quickly to captain and move on to a major than spend over a decade at a regional just to hit halfway-decent earnings.

You and everyone else. Easier said than done.

Yazzoo 05-04-2012 11:19 AM

Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it.
I've decided to say thanks but no thanks to CHQ because I could not have accepted that position and felt confident that it was a smart decision. If I were sitting in my layover hotel, hating life at RAH, and the only consoling thought I had was "Well it was my only option so I decided to take it," that wouldn't be enough to justify my predicament.
So I'm taking a risk, building time, and pursuing what I believe to be better options.
Fly safe everyone, and thanks again :)

DashGirl 05-04-2012 11:27 AM


Originally Posted by Yazzoo (Post 1181941)
Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it.
I've decided to say thanks but no thanks to CHQ because I could not have accepted that position and felt confident that it was a smart decision. If I were sitting in my layover hotel, hating life at RAH, and the only consoling thought I had was "Well it was my only option so I decided to take it," that wouldn't be enough to justify my predicament.
So I'm taking a risk, building time, and pursuing what I believe to be better options.
Fly safe everyone, and thanks again :)

Excellent choice, I wish more people followed this example.

LeineLodge 05-04-2012 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by Yazzoo (Post 1181941)
Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it.
I've decided to say thanks but no thanks to CHQ because I could not have accepted that position and felt confident that it was a smart decision. If I were sitting in my layover hotel, hating life at RAH, and the only consoling thought I had was "Well it was my only option so I decided to take it," that wouldn't be enough to justify my predicament.
So I'm taking a risk, building time, and pursuing what I believe to be better options.
Fly safe everyone, and thanks again :)

Sounds like a good decision to me. :D

Hopefully things will keep chugging along for you and you can get on with ExpressJet (far superior in my opinion). A big thing to consider, which requires a crystal ball, is which regional will benefit from the upcoming re-alignment of RJ flying.

XJet (SKYW) is a pretty well run regional that will most likely be around in some form for the foreseeable future, and will probably be a part of whatever the next big thing is. I can't say the same for RAH as the wheels seem to be falling off the wagon over there. Their aborted attempt at running their own airline has been a miserable failure, as predicted. The bright spot is that this is a good thing for the industry overall - no ill-will wished towards my fellow RAH pilots. My biggest ulcer over the whole thing is that Bedford got his hands on TWO classy operations (MidEx and Frontier) and completely destroyed them - preaching all the way to the bank. :mad:

I should clarify -the crews were great when I was there. It was the seedy management team that made it undesirable. To answer your question a few pages back about why RAH was not a good place to work: it was a Mickey Mouse operation. They had grown considerably, flying jets all over the country, but were still trying to run it like a Beech 99 operation out of Jamestown, NY. I constantly felt like I was going to be hung out to dry, and if I didn't watch my own back (regarding MX, dispatch issues, scheduling limits, etc) I was gonna have a career limiting event. Several guys did.

I could give many examples, but my favorite was a return to the departure field for a runaway elevator trim system (due to crappy MX.) After we ran the procedure and safely got the aircraft back on the ground, the Director of Operations called and gave me a load of $hit for not limping the aircraft back to the hub for repairs. It would have been over an hour flight (at normal cruise which wouldn't have been possible with the trim situation) passing multiple suitable divert fields. I had to threaten to get the FAA involved in our conversation to get him to back off. Like I said, just one of MANY examples of how an airline is NOT supposed to be run.

Again, this was over 5 years ago and I hear it has gotten much worse with the contract negotiations and dismal financial performance. The only good thing was the massive growth that was occurring 10 years ago, which allowed for quick upgrades. With that no longer being the case, I think you're smart to look elsewhere.

I have many friends that are still working at ExpressJet that have given me a pretty good feeling for how they do things over there (not to mention having jumpseated with them many times - Thanks!) Compared to the other regionals, it is a solid operation with an above-average contract. I think that's about the best you can shoot for until the future of the regional industry comes into focus a little more.

Don't get discouraged and continue to make fact-based decisions (like you are.) It seems like it's been taking forever, but the hiring boom at the majors IS coming in the next couple of years. This will get things moving again at the regionals and you will see upgrade times come way down again. In the meantime, try to enjoy yourself and position yourself as best you can.

Good luck!

MoarAlpha 05-04-2012 03:33 PM


Originally Posted by LeineLodge (Post 1181999)
Sounds like a good decision to me. :D

Hopefully things will keep chugging along for you and you can get on with ExpressJet (far superior in my opinion). A big thing to consider, which requires a crystal ball, is which regional will benefit from the upcoming re-alignment of RJ flying.

XJet (SKYW) is a pretty well run regional that will most likely be around in some form for the foreseeable future, and will probably be a part of whatever the next big thing is. I can't say the same for RAH as the wheels seem to be falling off the wagon over there. Their aborted attempt at running their own airline has been a miserable failure, as predicted. The bright spot is that this is a good thing for the industry overall - no ill-will wished towards my fellow RAH pilots. My biggest ulcer over the whole thing is that Bedford got his hands on TWO classy operations (MidEx and Frontier) and completely destroyed them - preaching all the way to the bank. :mad:

I should clarify -the crews were great when I was there. It was the seedy management team that made it undesirable. To answer your question a few pages back about why RAH was not a good place to work: it was a Mickey Mouse operation. They had grown considerably, flying jets all over the country, but were still trying to run it like a Beech 99 operation out of Jamestown, NY. I constantly felt like I was going to be hung out to dry, and if I didn't watch my own back (regarding MX, dispatch issues, scheduling limits, etc) I was gonna have a career limiting event. Several guys did.

I could give many examples, but my favorite was a return to the departure field for a runaway elevator trim system (due to crappy MX.) After we ran the procedure and safely got the aircraft back on the ground, the Director of Operations called and gave me a load of $hit for not limping the aircraft back to the hub for repairs. It would have been over an hour flight (at normal cruise which wouldn't have been possible with the trim situation) passing multiple suitable divert fields. I had to threaten to get the FAA involved in our conversation to get him to back off. Like I said, just one of MANY examples of how an airline is NOT supposed to be run.

Again, this was over 5 years ago and I hear it has gotten much worse with the contract negotiations and dismal financial performance. The only good thing was the massive growth that was occurring 10 years ago, which allowed for quick upgrades. With that no longer being the case, I think you're smart to look elsewhere.

I have many friends that are still working at ExpressJet that have given me a pretty good feeling for how they do things over there (not to mention having jumpseated with them many times - Thanks!) Compared to the other regionals, it is a solid operation with an above-average contract. I think that's about the best you can shoot for until the future of the regional industry comes into focus a little more.

Don't get discouraged and continue to make fact-based decisions (like you are.) It seems like it's been taking forever, but the hiring boom at the majors IS coming in the next couple of years. This will get things moving again at the regionals and you will see upgrade times come way down again. In the meantime, try to enjoy yourself and position yourself as best you can.

Good luck!

Great writeup and I couldn't agree more.

I'm at XJT now (legacy ASA) and enjoy it. I would highly recommend coming here if given the opportunity. I passed up an Eagle interview for the same reasons you (OP) did and have never been happier with my decision. There are the normal arguments with scheduling sometimes due to them not knowing the contract, but that is absolutely nothing compared to things I hear at other regionals.


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