dang

If a LCA says it’s required I want to be able to at least see a reference in writing. Most of the time there is no reason to even have a shallow descent. Or by doing a shallow descent it would cause problems with ATC crossing traffic. But, if it’s not breaking any FAR/SOP or ops spec etc. Then it’s a preference not a requirement.

Utah

The AIM use to have the 1000fpm minimum descent rate in it. I think it's been gone for a while now though.

I hardly see anyone use less than a 1000fpm, and when they do they usually get asked by ATC for more.

captain152

There's nothing wrong with asking a LCA (check airman) where something is written in the book. If they can't reference it in the book they shouldn't be teaching it and critiquing you on it. They're there to help form you into a better pilot... NOT to pick on every little thing you do TECHNIQUE wise that's different from them.

Bottom line... If its safe and within limitations and procedures of the AIM and company manuals... Who gives a darn?!

maxjet

Don't have it in writing but it is a courtesy to ATC planning to descend at a rate no lower than 1000 fpm. My question as a check airman would be why would you want to descend a a slower rate? There is probably a reason why ATC is giving you a early descent or a descent of only a few 1000's feet. Why not help them out and give them a 1000 fpm or greater depending on how much you are going to descend

Senior Skipper

This.

You'll find the Captains that like to micro-manage. It's not worth the hassle.

To answer the question, it all depends on the situation. If they tell me the next sector needs me to adjust my crz level by 1000ft, i may just select 500fpm. If they say to descend for traffic, I'm more likely to select 1500fpm or greater.

I like to avoid being that guy making the controller's job harder, so I'll just ask ATC if I'm ever seriously in doubt. If they ask what your vertical speed is, and you're only doing 600fpm, I'd take it as an indication that you need to do better, unless they state otherwise.

CEFO

We fly our aircraft the same way. 3.5 degree VNAV path. Seems a pretty common technique, although there are a folks out there who feel the need to start down imediately when you get a PD descent. Why waste the gas? Watch the crossing restrictions of course.

If not on profile, make it 500' a min until they ask for more. ATC makes mistakes too so dont be afraid to query them if you need or want to stay high or CANT make a restriction. Bottom line fly your aircraft, dont let atc take the controls.

dundem

I think it's great that you brought this up. Have you noticed that there's been no reference so far to say otherwise? I think LCA have a tremendous responsibility and that they should differentiate clearly between regs and their technique.

IMO, the 1,000 fpm has been passed from generation to generation and though it can be considered good operating technique in some circumstances, I've never seen it be the general rule in writing anywhere around the world that I've flown.

There are times that a min descent rate (500 fpm) is good operating technique. Sitting in an A340 at FL410 and approaching some FIR boundaries that are known bottlenecks, it is not uncommon to lose you preferred cruising altitude for another. Why rush down with a thrust-idle descent? I've been at FL410 and been asked to descend to FL350 due spacing (separation is procedural in many parts of the world- even with radar) and I did a 500 fpm descent. That may save 200 lbs. Extrapolate 200 lbs per sector over a fleet and see how much that adds up.

It's good that you questioned this. I'd recommend that you find a way to ask these guys who say stuff like this where to find the reference that makes it seem that you are trying to learn and not challenging their authority.

dundem

I haven't read it in while, but IIRC, this is correct. It's no more than 1000 fpm up or down as you approach your assigned altitude. As stated earlier, its intent is to reduce/avoid TCAS incidents.

Salukipilot4590

Descend from 330 to 310?

SCREW IT I'M GOING 3000 FPM











Ball so hard mo-fos wanna fine me!

dundem

But 1st they gotta find me..