CAPTAINPCL

There is nothing that says you must specifically descend at 1000 FPM or greater. However, just try a few descents at 500 fpm and see how many times ATC starts barking at you to increase your rate of descent...

The Juice

Instead of looking for ammo to be cocked and loaded to go after the CKA, why not ask where he is referencing that material that he states is the correct decent profile?

9kBud

In the ATR you can't descend at VMO unless you do at least 1000FPM. Therefore you'll rarely see me do less in an enroute descent. Like others have said, it's all a matter of technique.

BlueMoon

You need to look at your AOM and see what it says. The AOM where I work says to use the most fuel efficient descent profile, when able, above 10k. It gives the profile as 500fpm when descending prior to TOD, and a flight idle descent from TOD to 10k. That being said almost everyone uses 1000fpm for anything more than 1000' descent (theVnav will give you 1000fpm till it intercepts the imputed descent angle.

Below 10k 1000fpm is the AOM standard unless a higher descent rate is needed.

Then again If someone I'm flying with wants it done differently and it is within reason, not going to get us in trouble, or create paperwork I don't make a bit deal about it.

If it ends up being constant micromanaging by the CA, just let him fly all the legs. I don't need the stress of flying the plane and making sure I follow his unwritten techniques.

2StgTurbine

I do it a lot and almost never hear a peep from ATC. Today ATC had us climb to FL200 and after about 20 miles there asked us to go down to 16,000. We went down at 500 fpm and ATC said nothing. If they needed us to go down faster, they would have just said something. We know the places ATC wants us down by and sometimes they send us down early. I usually go into a shallow descent rate until I intercept the normal descent rate they have us do.

I also slow to about 600 fpm for the last 1,000 ft because at that rate, the level off the AP does is unnoticeable. Also, when ATC keeps descending us as soon as we level off, the slow descent rate at the end gives just enough time for ATC to see our altitude and issue the next step down without having to level off.

I also climb at 1,000 fpm (and 500 fpm for the last 1,000 ft) in order to maintain a high airspeed. That gives a pretty low climb gradient. Some people I fly with will pitch to 185 or 200 KIAS all the way up to get 2,000 to 3,500 fpm which gives a very high climb gradient. That is a very large range in climb profiles for ATC to deal with and they rarely say anything.

The point is, do what you want to within company policy and FAA regulation. If someone asks why you are doing it that way make sure you have a good reason. If ATC wants something different, comply. If a check airman wants it done differently, comply even if their reasoning is poor.

BoilerUP

Not as often as you might think.

We cruise at FL450, and sometimes 200-300nm from destination ATC tries to descend us down into the upper 20s/low 30s...into high fuel flows and often the strongest headwinds.

Not wanting to waste fuel and time, if I can't talk them into PD I'll descend at 500fpm until 1. they ask for a greater rate, 2. I intercept my VNAV profile (3.0-4.5°), or 3. I get turned out. Staying as high as possible, as long as possible, allows us to keep high true airspeeds with low fuel burns.

Typically, the conversation then goes like this:

"Say rate of descent"

"500fpm, but we can do whatever ya need"

Sometimes it doesn't work for ATC for us to stay up, but most of the time it does...all it takes is asking the question.

mmaviator

This doesn't answer his/her question but I agree with this. Just let the CA fly all the legs if he is flying by the book, not creating paperwork, being safe.

Singlecoil

This section of the AIM used to say something to the effect of, "descend as rapidly as practicable until within 1000 feet, thence at a rate of 500-1000fpm". Most of us learned this phraseology. You are correct in that they softened the language considerably, but ATC has their own idea of what your are going to do when given a descent clearance. If you don't hear the words "at pilot's discretion" or aren't given a "cross XYZ at 12,000" then you might ask if the descent is at your discretion. There are certain areas where they are always descending you for crossing traffic. Especially if you are given a descent from FL370 to FL330 (or something like that), you can assume you are being descended for crossing traffic. Give them 800fpm and you will get yelled at. In that case 1000fpm is not enough in my opinion. I wouldn't let you do less than 1000 if I was sitting next to you in that situation. Personally I do about 1500. I have noticed that they will squawk at you more times than not if you are doing less than that.
Not everything is spelled out specifically in the books. Experience can be an excellent guide. It sounds to me like the person who points that out to you was trying to provide some guidance, not bust your chops.

Where in the book does it say your holdover time will be reduced if the deicing fluid is being applied in a strong wind, particularly when using Type 4 fluid? It doesn't. Holdover times are also greatly reduced when the precip is near freezing with a rain/snow mix as the increased moisture content dissipates the fluid more rapidly. There's lots to learn out there, but the learning environment depends on an ego-free exchange of ideas.

AviHaters

Not entirely correct. It tells you to use 1000ft/min the last 2000 feet of assigned altitude. Not the entire RVSM airspace.

RunnerMark

Somewhere in the AIM I remember it saying that in the terminal area (w/in 30nm of an airport) a pilot should descend at 1500ft/min when practical and that this is what ATC expects. Don't remember exactly where. But I also had a LCA once fly off the handle when I descended at 1700ft/min from 8000ft to 2000ft. Every LCA has their soap box, and some of them are "Real Special People".