BelowMins

I may be wrong here since this is 9k's first contract but I don't believe the company can just cut the $3/hr override while in negotiations. It would be a change to the "status quo". It would be like the company cutting pay to $5/hr when a union is voted in and saying "ok we'll give you a 'raise' back to your original $15/hr rate".


Again I know this applies to companies amending a contract but I'm not sure if it applies while negotiating a first contract.


Either way good luck to everyone at 9K. It's always been a great place to work and I'm sure it will continue to be.

rocketman3746

That is accurate. I think a better way to put it is, if there were no union negotiations, the override would be gone. During negotiations, the company's initial offer probably included cutting the override, and the unions initial offer was something similar to raising everyone's pay to Caribbean levels. And we met somewhere in the middle. Only thing is, do we think they met close enough to the middle, or do we need to work on section 3 some more.

rocketman3746

Not sure if your comment was directed at me or bakesou, but I apologize if you felt that I was attacking you personally. The only thing I want to attack is people's flawed logic. This is what you said originally:
And here's what you replied with:
So even you agree they didn't do anything close to copying our current manual and making it a TA. In my first response to you, one of the main points I wanted to make was that, despite the weak section 3 (which I agree is a huge downside), there is a LOT more to be gained from this TA. The argument that a year 1 pilot's raise is equal to his union dues, therefore the TA is useless, is absolutely ridiculous and juvenile.

I live in the Boston area, where the cost of living is higher than just about anywhere in the Caribbean, and I've been on a 35 min line all winter, so I know exactly what that feels like. It's awful. But don't get me wrong, I understand why a Caribbean pilot will vote no. I don't expect them to do otherwise. I just want them to make an informed decision. Most of the crap flying around down there, even on the company frequency, has been ridiculous and uninformed. Here are some examples from this forum:
This is my favorite:
Anyways, moving on...
I agree the 401k match is weak. I wanted a 100% match up to 3% or something like that. One of the other reasons I might vote no. There are a lot of older pilots here who are going to work here until they retire, and they are going to need a strong 401k in order to do that. The 1:4 match isn't going to help at all.

Thank you for making this point. For the most part, I think pilots would still be able to live there comfortably, at least in the PR bases, but this new TA will most likely make the Caribbean go junior and some of the bases, in their high season, will be very difficult to live in, so it's a double whammy. I seriously doubt that if we vote this TA down that we will be able to bump the payscale up that much (although it's obviously worth a shot), but one of the better ideas that I've heard up here was to have special additional moving allowances on top of the regular allowance for the islands that are the most expensive.

The main thing that frustrates me is that so many pilots at Cape Air put zero effort and, most importantly, input into these negotiations, and then got all upset when they didn't get their way. Do you know how many Caribbean pilots got involved with the negotiations? ZERO! If some of them did, maybe section three might have turned out differently. So make this your wake up call. If the TA gets voted down, help the union come up with realistic ways to make it, and most importantly section 3, better!

BelowMins

This is not true. I've lived in both, and the Caribbean is MUCH more expensive. Boston does have one of the highest cost of living indexes in the US but it is not an island. Where have you lived in the Caribbean? Comparing ACK and MVY would be a little more accurate but not Boston.

BelowMins

Edit:


Puerto Rico is definitely cheaper than Boston. So that would be a fair comparison. The smaller islands don't have as many options for places to live and they are just as large of bases as SJU. Food is very expensive in the USVI.

rocketman3746

Yeah, this is kinda what I meant in my long reply. Our SJU and MAZ bases might not be so difficult to live in under the new rules, but it might not be enough for a 1st year pilot with a 40 hour line in places like the USVI, and probably any of the islands down there. We'd have to see how the new contract would affect how junior the Caribbean goes. One thing to take into consideration though, which might help at least a little; if they vote this TA into effect, they might start building a lot more lines with overtime down there. I know that because of the override and locality pay, they were trying to run as lean as possible down there, so maybe the lines and staffing would change for the better. That's just wild speculation though. And no I haven't lived in the Caribbean, I've been lucky enough to be able to stay up north my entire career here (if you can call a 35 min line lucky). I've been asking a lot of people who have been in the Caribbean though, to get an idea of how much it costs to live down there. I think your comparison to MVY and ACK would probably be pretty accurate as far as food and gas goes.

plastic gerbil

I would guess that with PR overtime rules for OT after 8 hours going away {when pilots sign off on this contract} that Cape Air will expand flying out of SJU and shrink the outstation bases to a minimum. This plan is already being put into place for northern bases for this year starting in May. More pilots will be based in HYA BOS and EWB. MVY and ACK will only have two pilots each.
This makes sense to me. The senior pilots in the outstations will get to stay in their bases where they want to be and the transitioning pilots will get to fly out of SJU where the hub of the operation is and the cost of living is cheaper. This is also a better deal for people who transition because they get a higher year round minimum and get to transition to San Juan where they can use public transportation thats paid for by the company. The override is less necessary in SJU because as previously stated in posts above the cost of living in SJU is comparable to the North East.

RonWeasley

The SJU overtime can't "go away", this is an overtime law like several other States. Overtime pay required for any hours over 8 in a single day and on a statutory rest day. The overtime rate is double time (2 times the regular rate). I'm betting Cape Air is paying time and a half?

plastic gerbil

I wish this was the case , however Lawyers say you give up these rights thru a CBA, the laws for overtime can be bypassed. I somehow doubt that a labour lawyer would be wrong but you never know. The time in and half rate for over forty hours in a calender week still exist so all over time wont be lost. Hopefully the company will not be afraid to sched. pilots for over eight hour shifts now so they will get over forty hours on a weekly basis.