Pinnacle asking 7% from pilots
02-11-2012, 03:25 PM
#452
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,341
Some thoughts on the topic…
Facts:
- The 11-09 realignment is an expensive one-time cost.
- Delta is supposed to reimburse Pinnacle for increased training costs.
- Q400 and Delta 900 contracts are causing us to lose money.
- Both the Q400 and the CRJ900 or profitable aircraft.
- UAL has agreed to a modification to the Q400 contract to keep Pinnacle afloat.
- Pinnacle got a grace period on the Q400 payments.
- Labor costs have gone up due to the pilot contract.
- Sean Menke asked pilots to take an indefinite 5% pay cut, then he changed it to a 7% pay cut for 1 year with a snap back to normal pay, and finally the last union email update stated they were talking about the 5% cut again.
- We are still hiring at a good rate.
Rumors:
- If negotiations do not work out, all Q400s and SAABs will be gone in a year and they will furlough out of seniority order and shut down the Colgan operation.
- All SAABs will be gone in 1 year.
- There are apparently 1 or 2 new Q400s painted in UAL colors in Toronto (I have not personally seen them and won’t believe it until I see pictures).
- Delta wants to take the 16 900s and give them to ASA/ExpressJet.
Speculation:
Sean Menke is just testing the waters on possible pay concessions to see if we bite.
Despite the threat of bankruptcy and the possible major loss of airframes we are still hiring because we may be getting more Q400s. The order for more Q400s may have been a supporting reason behind the postponement of the Q400 payments.
UAL may have been in talks with SkyWest or someone else about Q400 flying and is going to send some aircraft to another regional in order to play us against each other. This would be a costly and timely expense for UAL, but if it causes us to compete with another regional, UAL may see this as a worthwhile investment to drive down costs.
Delta management gets bored and decides to move aircraft around just for fun.
Conclusion:
No matter what happens, the one thing that does not make sense is the requested concessions in pay. 5% of our pay is barley going to affect our bottom line. The 7% for 1 year only reeks of management trickery.
Our fate was decided years ago and giving management a self-inflicted pay cut is just icing on the cake for management. Until we get more information all of this is just speculation that we should not let take over our lives.
- The 11-09 realignment is an expensive one-time cost.
- Delta is supposed to reimburse Pinnacle for increased training costs.
- Q400 and Delta 900 contracts are causing us to lose money.
- Both the Q400 and the CRJ900 or profitable aircraft.
- UAL has agreed to a modification to the Q400 contract to keep Pinnacle afloat.
- Pinnacle got a grace period on the Q400 payments.
- Labor costs have gone up due to the pilot contract.
- Sean Menke asked pilots to take an indefinite 5% pay cut, then he changed it to a 7% pay cut for 1 year with a snap back to normal pay, and finally the last union email update stated they were talking about the 5% cut again.
- We are still hiring at a good rate.
Rumors:
- If negotiations do not work out, all Q400s and SAABs will be gone in a year and they will furlough out of seniority order and shut down the Colgan operation.
- All SAABs will be gone in 1 year.
- There are apparently 1 or 2 new Q400s painted in UAL colors in Toronto (I have not personally seen them and won’t believe it until I see pictures).
- Delta wants to take the 16 900s and give them to ASA/ExpressJet.
Speculation:
Sean Menke is just testing the waters on possible pay concessions to see if we bite.
Despite the threat of bankruptcy and the possible major loss of airframes we are still hiring because we may be getting more Q400s. The order for more Q400s may have been a supporting reason behind the postponement of the Q400 payments.
UAL may have been in talks with SkyWest or someone else about Q400 flying and is going to send some aircraft to another regional in order to play us against each other. This would be a costly and timely expense for UAL, but if it causes us to compete with another regional, UAL may see this as a worthwhile investment to drive down costs.
Delta management gets bored and decides to move aircraft around just for fun.
Conclusion:
No matter what happens, the one thing that does not make sense is the requested concessions in pay. 5% of our pay is barley going to affect our bottom line. The 7% for 1 year only reeks of management trickery.
Our fate was decided years ago and giving management a self-inflicted pay cut is just icing on the cake for management. Until we get more information all of this is just speculation that we should not let take over our lives.
02-11-2012, 03:30 PM
#453
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Posts: 495
Facts:
- The 11-09 realignment is an expensive one-time cost.
- Delta is supposed to reimburse Pinnacle for increased training costs.
- Q400 and Delta 900 contracts are causing us to lose money.
- Both the Q400 and the CRJ900 or profitable aircraft.
- UAL has agreed to a modification to the Q400 contract to keep Pinnacle afloat.
- Pinnacle got a grace period on the Q400 payments.
- Labor costs have gone up due to the pilot contract.
- Sean Menke asked pilots to take an indefinite 5% pay cut, then he changed it to a 7% pay cut for 1 year with a snap back to normal pay, and finally the last union email update stated they were talking about the 5% cut again.
- We are still hiring at a good rate.
Rumors:
- If negotiations do not work out, all Q400s and SAABs will be gone in a year and they will furlough out of seniority order and shut down the Colgan operation.
- All SAABs will be gone in 1 year.
- There are apparently 1 or 2 new Q400s painted in UAL colors in Toronto (I have not personally seen them and won’t believe it until I see pictures).
- Delta wants to take the 16 900s and give them to ASA/ExpressJet.
Speculation:
Sean Menke is just testing the waters on possible pay concessions to see if we bite.
Despite the threat of bankruptcy and the possible major loss of airframes we are still hiring because we may be getting more Q400s. The order for more Q400s may have been a supporting reason behind the postponement of the Q400 payments.
UAL may have been in talks with SkyWest or someone else about Q400 flying and is going to send some aircraft to another regional in order to play us against each other. This would be a costly and timely expense for UAL, but if it causes us to compete with another regional, UAL may see this as a worthwhile investment to drive down costs.
Delta management gets bored and decides to move aircraft around just for fun.
Conclusion:
No matter what happens, the one thing that does not make sense is the requested concessions in pay. 5% of our pay is barley going to affect our bottom line. The 7% for 1 year only reeks of management trickery.
Our fate was decided years ago and giving management a self-inflicted pay cut is just icing on the cake for management. Until we get more information all of this is just speculation that we should not let take over our lives.
- The 11-09 realignment is an expensive one-time cost.
- Delta is supposed to reimburse Pinnacle for increased training costs.
- Q400 and Delta 900 contracts are causing us to lose money.
- Both the Q400 and the CRJ900 or profitable aircraft.
- UAL has agreed to a modification to the Q400 contract to keep Pinnacle afloat.
- Pinnacle got a grace period on the Q400 payments.
- Labor costs have gone up due to the pilot contract.
- Sean Menke asked pilots to take an indefinite 5% pay cut, then he changed it to a 7% pay cut for 1 year with a snap back to normal pay, and finally the last union email update stated they were talking about the 5% cut again.
- We are still hiring at a good rate.
Rumors:
- If negotiations do not work out, all Q400s and SAABs will be gone in a year and they will furlough out of seniority order and shut down the Colgan operation.
- All SAABs will be gone in 1 year.
- There are apparently 1 or 2 new Q400s painted in UAL colors in Toronto (I have not personally seen them and won’t believe it until I see pictures).
- Delta wants to take the 16 900s and give them to ASA/ExpressJet.
Speculation:
Sean Menke is just testing the waters on possible pay concessions to see if we bite.
Despite the threat of bankruptcy and the possible major loss of airframes we are still hiring because we may be getting more Q400s. The order for more Q400s may have been a supporting reason behind the postponement of the Q400 payments.
UAL may have been in talks with SkyWest or someone else about Q400 flying and is going to send some aircraft to another regional in order to play us against each other. This would be a costly and timely expense for UAL, but if it causes us to compete with another regional, UAL may see this as a worthwhile investment to drive down costs.
Delta management gets bored and decides to move aircraft around just for fun.
Conclusion:
No matter what happens, the one thing that does not make sense is the requested concessions in pay. 5% of our pay is barley going to affect our bottom line. The 7% for 1 year only reeks of management trickery.
Our fate was decided years ago and giving management a self-inflicted pay cut is just icing on the cake for management. Until we get more information all of this is just speculation that we should not let take over our lives.
Best post I've seen on the subject.
02-11-2012, 04:40 PM
#454
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: Doing what you do, for less.
Posts: 1,792
So let me get this straight, they started all of this in motion by creating Pinnacle Corp to own Pinnacle Inc and other airlines... which looks like it is going to end up bankrupting the whole airline... while all the pilots themselves spent years (and to a lesser extent, still do) having money problem themselves?
Know what that sounds like to me?
Know what that sounds like to me?
02-12-2012, 01:00 PM
#455
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 330
Im curious
Why would delta reimburse Pinnacle for the increased training cost?
Aren't the folks at Delta always trying to get out of paying for anything?
Not starting a fight, just curious. Interesting thing to agree to pay for.
Why would delta reimburse Pinnacle for the increased training cost?
Aren't the folks at Delta always trying to get out of paying for anything?
Not starting a fight, just curious. Interesting thing to agree to pay for.
02-12-2012, 01:08 PM
#456
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: AN124 FE
Posts: 1,226
Great post, just got done flying 2 3 days, love how people keep saying Colgan will be parked when we file BK. Do people forget we have EAS routes on the Saab still? I highly doubt a BK judge will allow us to stop flying those when we are getting money from the govt. Saabs will be parked slowly yes , but I firmly believe we will be getting more Qs. Can the Saab contract and pay us a little more to operate only the Qs and United will be ahead financially with us and we can be happy. 
O and I say again, DAL will not allow their precious 900 heavies to be parked, they may move them to another base and combine them with the XJ contract but they are not going anywhere.
I love the Surejet rumor, havent heard that one yet. People must be forgetting that they just lost a few 700s for their crap performance.
O and I say again, DAL will not allow their precious 900 heavies to be parked, they may move them to another base and combine them with the XJ contract but they are not going anywhere.I love the Surejet rumor, havent heard that one yet. People must be forgetting that they just lost a few 700s for their crap performance.
Facts:
- The 11-09 realignment is an expensive one-time cost.
- Delta is supposed to reimburse Pinnacle for increased training costs.
- Q400 and Delta 900 contracts are causing us to lose money.
- Both the Q400 and the CRJ900 or profitable aircraft.
- UAL has agreed to a modification to the Q400 contract to keep Pinnacle afloat.
- Pinnacle got a grace period on the Q400 payments.
- Labor costs have gone up due to the pilot contract.
- Sean Menke asked pilots to take an indefinite 5% pay cut, then he changed it to a 7% pay cut for 1 year with a snap back to normal pay, and finally the last union email update stated they were talking about the 5% cut again.
- We are still hiring at a good rate.
Rumors:
- If negotiations do not work out, all Q400s and SAABs will be gone in a year and they will furlough out of seniority order and shut down the Colgan operation.
- All SAABs will be gone in 1 year.
- There are apparently 1 or 2 new Q400s painted in UAL colors in Toronto (I have not personally seen them and won’t believe it until I see pictures).
- Delta wants to take the 16 900s and give them to ASA/ExpressJet.
Speculation:
Sean Menke is just testing the waters on possible pay concessions to see if we bite.
Despite the threat of bankruptcy and the possible major loss of airframes we are still hiring because we may be getting more Q400s. The order for more Q400s may have been a supporting reason behind the postponement of the Q400 payments.
UAL may have been in talks with SkyWest or someone else about Q400 flying and is going to send some aircraft to another regional in order to play us against each other. This would be a costly and timely expense for UAL, but if it causes us to compete with another regional, UAL may see this as a worthwhile investment to drive down costs.
Delta management gets bored and decides to move aircraft around just for fun.
Conclusion:
No matter what happens, the one thing that does not make sense is the requested concessions in pay. 5% of our pay is barley going to affect our bottom line. The 7% for 1 year only reeks of management trickery.
Our fate was decided years ago and giving management a self-inflicted pay cut is just icing on the cake for management. Until we get more information all of this is just speculation that we should not let take over our lives.
- The 11-09 realignment is an expensive one-time cost.
- Delta is supposed to reimburse Pinnacle for increased training costs.
- Q400 and Delta 900 contracts are causing us to lose money.
- Both the Q400 and the CRJ900 or profitable aircraft.
- UAL has agreed to a modification to the Q400 contract to keep Pinnacle afloat.
- Pinnacle got a grace period on the Q400 payments.
- Labor costs have gone up due to the pilot contract.
- Sean Menke asked pilots to take an indefinite 5% pay cut, then he changed it to a 7% pay cut for 1 year with a snap back to normal pay, and finally the last union email update stated they were talking about the 5% cut again.
- We are still hiring at a good rate.
Rumors:
- If negotiations do not work out, all Q400s and SAABs will be gone in a year and they will furlough out of seniority order and shut down the Colgan operation.
- All SAABs will be gone in 1 year.
- There are apparently 1 or 2 new Q400s painted in UAL colors in Toronto (I have not personally seen them and won’t believe it until I see pictures).
- Delta wants to take the 16 900s and give them to ASA/ExpressJet.
Speculation:
Sean Menke is just testing the waters on possible pay concessions to see if we bite.
Despite the threat of bankruptcy and the possible major loss of airframes we are still hiring because we may be getting more Q400s. The order for more Q400s may have been a supporting reason behind the postponement of the Q400 payments.
UAL may have been in talks with SkyWest or someone else about Q400 flying and is going to send some aircraft to another regional in order to play us against each other. This would be a costly and timely expense for UAL, but if it causes us to compete with another regional, UAL may see this as a worthwhile investment to drive down costs.
Delta management gets bored and decides to move aircraft around just for fun.
Conclusion:
No matter what happens, the one thing that does not make sense is the requested concessions in pay. 5% of our pay is barley going to affect our bottom line. The 7% for 1 year only reeks of management trickery.
Our fate was decided years ago and giving management a self-inflicted pay cut is just icing on the cake for management. Until we get more information all of this is just speculation that we should not let take over our lives.
02-12-2012, 01:11 PM
#457
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,097
Because when Mesaba was sold it was already announced that all the Saabs were going away. Even Trenary wasn't quite stupid enough to buy Mesaba and just eat all those known training costs that would be associated with or without merging the companies. Delta wanted rid of its wholly owneds bad enough to agree to that to dump one of them and not be stuck with 2 they couldn't unload.
02-12-2012, 02:42 PM
#458
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,916
Fact. Delta has balked on the costs, and if you ask those 'in the know' they will tell you Delta does not want to pay for training costs associated with the Colgan side of things, because that's not Delta's business. We're talking about the closing of the BOS Saab base and all the Colgan prop guys jumping over. Delta only agreed to pay the training costs associated with the Mesaba Saabs being parked, and rightfully so.
02-12-2012, 02:46 PM
#459
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Because Pinnacle is trying to get Delta to pay for training associated with USair and United.
02-12-2012, 02:47 PM
#460
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: AN124 FE
Posts: 1,226
Fact. Delta has balked on the costs, and if you ask those 'in the know' they will tell you Delta does not want to pay for training costs associated with the Colgan side of things, because that's not Delta's business. We're talking about the closing of the BOS Saab base and all the Colgan prop guys jumping over. Delta only agreed to pay the training costs associated with the Mesaba Saabs being parked, and rightfully so.
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