Originally Posted by Bzwebner

Been through this before, not been through this before... It doesnt matter.

This is bigger than just "will this prevent bankruptcy at pinnacle". Its a statment to the industry as a whole in my opinion.


/Begin Rant

What are you worth as a pilot?

EVERYONE one working at Pinnacle, or any other regional for that matter, EVERYONE knew that they are entering an industry that is known for extreme ups, and extreme downs. Especially the side of the industry that we are in, the regionals.

No one looking at working at a regional ever said to themselves, "this is forever, I am going to be happy here!".

What happens is that people get cozy with their seniority and dont want to take the pay cut or cut in QOL by moving up to a major like they originally planned.

My point is, we ALL knew what we were getting in to when we signed up for this gig and we all assumed the risks. It is our responsibility to have our own back up plans just in case. Whats the advice we always give to young teens looking to aspire to become pilots? Get a degree in somthing other than aviation, THEN pursue the flying. We cant all be blind to our own advice.

Personally I have a plan B and plan B and a half. Just for situations like this.

In regards to the argument of if we vote no, we lose it all... I disagree.

If we vote yes, we do what pilots before us have done for years. We bow our heads to those who feed our supposed "addiction" to fly.

If we vote yes we bow our heads to those in corporate who are used to the idea of the "Let me fly your jet for free" pilots.

If we vote yes, we are continuing to prostitute, yes prostitute, our hard earned, highly skilled trade out to corporate mis-managment and greed.

As a group of high skilled, well trained, highly capable pilots who take tens of thousands of people from point A to point B safely multiple times a day, WE need to draw a line. because if we dont, we have NO RIGHT to come on to boards like this, go to Nightline, CNN or congress to complain. Because we have been, and would have continued to be the ones to blame.

Our industry treats pilots like dirt because when they shove our face in the sand with pay cuts or say "fly my plane for peanuts", and This is what SM is asking us to do now, those pilots before us said: "yessir, thankyou sir, let me keep flying for poverty wages sir, THANK YOU!"

I for one, say how dare you?
How dare you propose taking 5% away from my salary when I can just barely cover rent for a one bedroom apartment and purchase groceries based on what I make today? Where do you get the audacity to ask that of me? How dare you ask that of me, Sean Menke.

I paid close to $45,000 of my hard earned cash to pay for my flight training. It took me 6 years from my intro flight till I got my first regional job (I did not sell out to the first bidder and chose from three that offered me a job). I am not here to just so I can get my hands on a shiny plane, be it a 900, 200 400, saab or Superjumbostratoliner jet. I am here because its what I enjoy doing, and I do it well. It is my CAREER and deserve to be paid fairly for the level of experience and responsibilty that the position entails.

My 5% did not bring Pinnacle to where it is today. Management oversight did. Redundant positions, poor scheduling technuiqe, lack of proper maintenance and operations like running IAD with 5 Q400s based there with no reserve crews to back it up brought Pinnacle to where it is. And guess what, your 5% is not what got it here either.

Its time to take a stand and set a precedent that I can only hope other regional groups will follow. Look at history, look at how often the pay cuts actually helped and then look at how often then didnt.

What are you worth as a pilot? I can assure you it is more than what our industry standard is today, because people before us, in our position bowed their head and sold themselves out to poor managment decisions.

So look at youself in the mirror and honestly ask yourself:

"What is all of my training, skill and experience worth?"

I know what I am worth.

My vote is no.

/end rant

Disclaimer: Agree with me, or not... I didnt post this to hear you tell me I am wrong or right. I posted this because I feel this issue is bigger than the sum of pinnacle and it has always sicked me that we cant see that our worst enemy in this industry is us.

Originally Posted by tennisguru

Question: let's say that somehow the company and the union come to some sort of agreement that provides for 5% in overall savings from the pilot group without cutting wages or increasing insurance costs. Would that still draw such an adamant "no" vote from everyone?

Originally Posted by Imapilot2

I understand your sentiments but....are you implying even in the slightest that your pilot pay at any airline was even a sliver of a reason the airline liquidated? Your pay was to high to keep the airline in business and if you would work for cheaper it would still be in business?????

Originally Posted by Boomer

Kat, don't take this as a personal jab.

I have been through this, and as a result of the "education" of Comair going through BK, voting for cuts, and still shrinking, I know exactly how I would vote given this situation. You can spell it with two letters and one of them is N.

Originally Posted by FlyingKat

To demean anyone as "gutless" or a "coward" for voting yes is as ridiculous as criticizing those who vote no when you consider the implications of this decision.

Originally Posted by ShyGuy

Uh, no. Because for the lifers, they are lifers. No other lifeline left other than Pinnacle corp. The whiners and upgrade chasers will just run to the next crappy operation that has (relatively) quick movement.


Pilots at other regionals don't decide where the flying comes from.