Pinnacle asking 7% from pilots
01-05-2012, 06:50 AM
#201
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 519
You must be a first year FO, I take it. Feel free to ask any questions you may have...I'm sure your coworkers will be more than happy to answer them for you. Welcome aboard!
01-05-2012, 07:37 AM
#203
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: SF340 CA
Posts: 31
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt .
01-05-2012, 07:54 AM
#204
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 202
Understand this - you could agree to a 50% pay cut to help the company, and if Pinnacle files Ch11 the next day your efforts will not be recognized by the judge.
Only concessions given during BK count as a good faith sacrifice toward the 1113c motion that Pinnacle will certainly file against the pilot group.
Only concessions given during BK count as a good faith sacrifice toward the 1113c motion that Pinnacle will certainly file against the pilot group.
01-05-2012, 08:19 AM
#205
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 691
How are they going to prove it to you? They signed a NDA, they can't give you the details.
01-05-2012, 08:38 AM
#206
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,342
Look - Pinnacle Corp has NO INTENTION of avoiding bankruptcy. They are just trying to get lower rates from us so that the rates they get out of bankruptcy are much, much lower.
01-05-2012, 08:56 AM
#207
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,432
it's so easy to forget.
01-05-2012, 09:25 AM
#208
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,535
http://www.nysb.uscourts.gov/opinion...64_opinion.pdf
Page 4:
Concerned with the escalating financial problems confronting both Delta and Comair in the post 9/11 era, Comair sought cost reductions in its employee costs from both unionized and non-union employees and officers in late 2004 and early 2005. Of relevance here, in February 2005 Comair and ALPA signed a letter of agreement (“LOA”) modifying the pilot collective bargaining agreement to provide pilot compensation reductions equating to approximately $8 million per year.
The judge understands that pilots ponied up $8 million in concessions just prior to BK. Page 15:
When Comair and ALPA negotiated the February 2005 pre-petition concession LOA Comair undertook to increase its fleet of aircraft as a condition of maintaining the cost concessions. Its inability to do so will result in the January 1 $8 million snapback.
The Judge again points out that the pilot concessions right before BK save/cost Comair $8 million. He is clearly aware of the pilot concessions.Page 22:
Today, as a result of the rejection of the January 2006 LOA, the pilots are the only
employee constituency which has contributed no concession in wages, benefits or work rules toward Comair’s attempt to reorganize and emerge from bankruptcy.
Concessions prior to BK obviously don't count toward BK.employee constituency which has contributed no concession in wages, benefits or work rules toward Comair’s attempt to reorganize and emerge from bankruptcy.
Page 27:
Finally, the pilots are the only employee constituency which has made no concessionary contribution to Comair’s reorganization. Every other labor group, both union and non-union, has made substantial financial sacrifices to support the ongoing viability of the enterprise, except the pilots.
Again, concessions prior to BK obviously don't count toward BK.Sorry guys, but giving Pinnacle concessions right before BK will not get you squat from the judge.
01-05-2012, 10:17 AM
#209
New Hire
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Posts: 8
Boomer,
Just to clarify, pg 15.
"When Comair and ALPA negotiated the February 2005 pre-petition concession LOA Comair undertook to increase its fleet of aircraft as a condition of maintaining the cost concessions. Its inability to do so will result in the January 1 $8 million snapback."
The judge here is referring to the fact that the pilot's concessions were contingent on Comair increasing it's fleet, which comair was unable to do. As a result, the pilot's wages snapped back to what they were initially. So as it stood, after Comair entered bankruptcy, the pilot's wages were due to revert to their pre-concession levels. This is what the judge meant by the fact that pilots were the only employee group who had not contributed wage concessions to the reorganization. As of the time of the judge's ruling, the pilots' wages were set at the level they were before concessions.
If anything, this section of the ruling that you highlighted shows that bankruptcy judges closely examine which employee groups have made concessions and take that into account when imposing further concessions.
M.
Just to clarify, pg 15.
"When Comair and ALPA negotiated the February 2005 pre-petition concession LOA Comair undertook to increase its fleet of aircraft as a condition of maintaining the cost concessions. Its inability to do so will result in the January 1 $8 million snapback."
The judge here is referring to the fact that the pilot's concessions were contingent on Comair increasing it's fleet, which comair was unable to do. As a result, the pilot's wages snapped back to what they were initially. So as it stood, after Comair entered bankruptcy, the pilot's wages were due to revert to their pre-concession levels. This is what the judge meant by the fact that pilots were the only employee group who had not contributed wage concessions to the reorganization. As of the time of the judge's ruling, the pilots' wages were set at the level they were before concessions.
If anything, this section of the ruling that you highlighted shows that bankruptcy judges closely examine which employee groups have made concessions and take that into account when imposing further concessions.
M.
01-05-2012, 10:26 AM
#210
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Page 27:
Finally, the pilots are the only employee constituency which has made no concessionary contribution to Comair’s reorganization. Every other labor group, both union and non-union, has made substantial financial sacrifices to support the ongoing viability of the enterprise, except the pilots.
Again, concessions prior to BK obviously don't count toward BK.Sorry guys, but giving Pinnacle concessions right before BK will not get you squat from the judge.
So, I guess the judge recognized the HUGE sacrifices made by management!?!
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