Pinnacle asking 7% from pilots
#141
Whether we vote yes or no on concessions will have nothing to do with BK. If its going to happen, its going to happen. You don't flirt with bankruptcy because you are 5% over budget. Funny how our CEO and CFO have already been through this before... We need shed the things that aren't making money, get it? Half of it is already moving anyways. Hasn't made money for years and never will... be gone with it.
The following was an interesting read...
American Airlines draws new bankruptcy judge in NY | Reuters
Also, remember what has to be met for a 1113 motion. A pro-business BK court in NY + 1113 motion can be a very bad day.
Just food for thought.
#142
[QUOTE=PropDriver;1106260]And during Q2 2012 Delta will be paying us $15-20 million to cover the increased costs of our pilot contract, training costs, and an increase in the rate Delta pays us for our flights. That payment right there will cover the ENTIRE 2011 year to date loss TIMES TWO.
I don't know much about bankruptcy but wouldn't the courts reject a filing under such circumstances as a case in which the old lady with a Virginia Ham in one hand is crying because she has no bread?
I don't know much about bankruptcy but wouldn't the courts reject a filing under such circumstances as a case in which the old lady with a Virginia Ham in one hand is crying because she has no bread?
#143
The following was an interesting read...
American Airlines draws new bankruptcy judge in NY | Reuters
Also, remember what has to be met for a 1113 motion. A pro-business BK court in NY + 1113 motion can be a very bad day.
Just food for thought.
American Airlines draws new bankruptcy judge in NY | Reuters
Also, remember what has to be met for a 1113 motion. A pro-business BK court in NY + 1113 motion can be a very bad day.
Just food for thought.
#144
I dont know and wont pretend to know much about BK court. That is why I will wait and listen from those who do (legal) and my new quest for self education on the topic. There is a lot to learn and know between "FUPM" and "Take whatever you want."
#145
http://www.nysb.uscourts.gov/opinion...64_opinion.pdf
Page 8 - Some background on "Good Faith Negotiations" and the 1113c process.
Page 14 - How Comair's president (who went on to become Delta's president of DCI, by the way) testified that pilot costs are why Delta took our planes away.
Page 15 - Then-President of DCI, Shawn Anderson, lies under oath that throwing out Comair's pilot contract and imposing lower pilot costs will allow Delta to give Comair more planes and let Comair survive:
". . . If Comair can restructure itself so that its controllable costs are competitive, Delta should be able to increase, rather than decrease, the flying it contracts to Comair. This would mean that Comair would have an opportunity to grow, rather than shrink. With growth would come new job opportunities, and reduced unit costs, as more junior employees are added, and reduced unit overhead costs as the same facilities and overhead could be used to perform more flying."
". . . I am familiar with Comair’s restructuring plans, including its plan to reduce its controllable costs–both labor and non-labor. If Comair is able to restructure in accordance with its restructuring plans, I believe that Comair will be able to perform Delta Connection flying at a competitive price. Accordingly, I believe that the labor cost reductions in Comair’s business plan are necessary–indeed, essential–to Comair’s successful restructuring."
I wonder if the judge cares, or even knows, that he got suckered?
Page 17 - Delta describes how Comair "lost" planes to cheaper regionals as proof that Comair pilots need to have their expensive contract thrown out. This is akin to a bank robber using his crimes as proof that his job doesn't pay enough.
Page 18 - Delta argues that the wage snapback (the only enforcement clause to the Fleet Guarantee that Delta was violating) would cost too much. Keep in mind that whatever ALPA promises you - as a guarantee that Pinnacle won't hold up their end of the deal - can be thrown out in bankruptcy.
Page 20 - Delta's Ed Bastian argues that even though Comair had a $50 million profit that year, it was still necessary to reduce costs to keep flying at Comair.
Page 22 - Judge points out that concessions must be made during BK; earlier concessions don't count.
Page 23 - More "Good Faith" jabbering and ALPA wrist-slapping from the judge.
Page 25 - Judge emphasizes that it is in Delta's best interests to grow Comair.
". . . I am familiar with Comair’s restructuring plans, including its plan to reduce its controllable costs–both labor and non-labor. If Comair is able to restructure in accordance with its restructuring plans, I believe that Comair will be able to perform Delta Connection flying at a competitive price. Accordingly, I believe that the labor cost reductions in Comair’s business plan are necessary–indeed, essential–to Comair’s successful restructuring."
I wonder if the judge cares, or even knows, that he got suckered?
Page 17 - Delta describes how Comair "lost" planes to cheaper regionals as proof that Comair pilots need to have their expensive contract thrown out. This is akin to a bank robber using his crimes as proof that his job doesn't pay enough.
Page 18 - Delta argues that the wage snapback (the only enforcement clause to the Fleet Guarantee that Delta was violating) would cost too much. Keep in mind that whatever ALPA promises you - as a guarantee that Pinnacle won't hold up their end of the deal - can be thrown out in bankruptcy.
Page 20 - Delta's Ed Bastian argues that even though Comair had a $50 million profit that year, it was still necessary to reduce costs to keep flying at Comair.
Page 22 - Judge points out that concessions must be made during BK; earlier concessions don't count.
Page 23 - More "Good Faith" jabbering and ALPA wrist-slapping from the judge.
Page 25 - Judge emphasizes that it is in Delta's best interests to grow Comair.
#148
That's, of course, how corporate BK works. Now, with personal BK (good ol' 'ginny ham in your example), the courts will tell you to give everything you own up to your corporate creditors, and to h#ll with you.
#149
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,994
Originally Posted by sinsilvia666
Many of you are concerned about the possibility of negotiating concessions to our current agreement now, only to enter bankruptcy in the near future. The MEC and the Negotiating committee shares your concerns and is taking steps to allow for proactive engagement to avoid bankruptcy, while protecting our position should the company file.
Do not take any paycuts voluntarily!!!! The BK judge will just be starting from a lower payscale when he makes his cuts.
Delta Pilots took a 32% paycut to keep us out of BK - guess what happened?
BK and another 14% cut. You will or will not enter BK on reasons other than a paltry 5% cut. This is pure management BS. Do not fall for this.
Scoop
Good Luck and Merry Christmas!
Many of you are concerned about the possibility of negotiating concessions to our current agreement now, only to enter bankruptcy in the near future. The MEC and the Negotiating committee shares your concerns and is taking steps to allow for proactive engagement to avoid bankruptcy, while protecting our position should the company file.
In other words... if you vote for a pay cut now and get another pay cut if, (sorry) when Pinnacle files BK, then your pay cuts will buy ALPA a seat on the board of the restructured company.
Just look at the pilots of Comair, Frontier, and American - they voted for concessions to stay out of bankruptcy, and it worked out great!!!
Vote YES with confidence that nothing bad can happen.
Your YES vote means ALPA is takin' it back!
Just look at the pilots of Comair, Frontier, and American - they voted for concessions to stay out of bankruptcy, and it worked out great!!!
Vote YES with confidence that nothing bad can happen.
Your YES vote means ALPA is takin' it back!
Do not take any paycuts voluntarily!!!! The BK judge will just be starting from a lower payscale when he makes his cuts.
Delta Pilots took a 32% paycut to keep us out of BK - guess what happened?
BK and another 14% cut. You will or will not enter BK on reasons other than a paltry 5% cut. This is pure management BS. Do not fall for this.
Scoop
Good Luck and Merry Christmas!
#150
Met some very nice and professional guys on my time there, sorry to hear you are going through a rough patch now, I also agree that giving concessions prior to what may be inevitable is a bad move. All the best
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