Pinnacle asking 7% from pilots
12-20-2011, 01:28 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 691
This place is falling apart, you don't think BK is going to bring about reduced flying? A bankruptcy is appearing highly likely, once declared you better bet that 200's are going to start to disappearing. This place could go down to 1200 pilots in a year. Are you going to wait for reality to slap you in the face before you accept it?
12-20-2011, 01:32 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: B767 FO
Posts: 423
I like how concessionary decisions ALWAYS have to be made in an extremely compressed time frame...but contract negotiations for wage & work rule improvements take YEARS. Very strategic in this case, as it more or less prevents a pilot group vote (especially around the holidays? YGBSM) and would lay it directly at the feet of the MEC.
If 'all' they are asking for is 5%, what's the worst one could reasonably stand to lose at the hands of a bankruptcy judge?
I don't work there so I have no skin in the game, but this has been played out many times before...even at the regional level. And if BK is the best way to restructure the company financially, pilot concessions aren't going to do jack squat to prevent them from filing.
"All of this has happened before, and will happen again."
If 'all' they are asking for is 5%, what's the worst one could reasonably stand to lose at the hands of a bankruptcy judge?
I don't work there so I have no skin in the game, but this has been played out many times before...even at the regional level. And if BK is the best way to restructure the company financially, pilot concessions aren't going to do jack squat to prevent them from filing.
"All of this has happened before, and will happen again."
12-20-2011, 01:38 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: MSP CA
Posts: 353
I'm pretty sure Menke and friends knows that if this goes to the pilots for a vote it will be a big "H#$% Fu#king NO", and I'm sure the Union guys know that if they allow this concession to happen without letting the pilot group vote, their days will be numbered. This is a chess game and the company is thinking 10 moves ahead of us lowly money hoarding pilots. IMO, bankruptcy is imminent and the company will end up getting more like 8% from the pilots and 11-09 will be canceled. Also, they will get the union to agree to omit that one little pesky sentence in the contract that deals with displacements, you know, the one that states the company must allow secondaries.
12-20-2011, 01:42 PM
#94
I have shiny jet syndrome
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: ELACS, FACs and SECs. Who doesn't love 'em?
Posts: 984
I like how concessionary decisions ALWAYS have to be made in an extremely compressed time frame...but contract negotiations for wage & work rule improvements take YEARS. Very strategic in this case, as it more or less prevents a pilot group vote (especially around the holidays? YGBSM) and would lay it directly at the feet of the MEC.
If 'all' they are asking for is 5%, what's the worst one could reasonably stand to lose at the hands of a bankruptcy judge?
I don't work there so I have no skin in the game, but this has been played out many times before...even at the regional level. And if BK is the best way to restructure the company financially, pilot concessions aren't going to do jack squat to prevent them from filing.
"All of this has happened before, and will happen again."
If 'all' they are asking for is 5%, what's the worst one could reasonably stand to lose at the hands of a bankruptcy judge?
I don't work there so I have no skin in the game, but this has been played out many times before...even at the regional level. And if BK is the best way to restructure the company financially, pilot concessions aren't going to do jack squat to prevent them from filing.
"All of this has happened before, and will happen again."
12-20-2011, 01:48 PM
#95
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,609
Again, "most charter operators" can't just "throw CFIs into the right seat to make pax feel better" because their OpSpecs don't allow for that.
12-20-2011, 01:57 PM
#96
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 175
Yet how many CFIs come on forums like this saying that they got their "turbine" time riding right seat in King Airs.
12-20-2011, 02:01 PM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Precarious
Posts: 387
Again, "most charter operators" can't just "throw CFIs into the right seat to make pax feel better" because their OpSpecs don't allow for that.
Sure they can. They just go on the load manifest as a passenger sitting in the right front seat. The "FO" can't log it, and can't fly, but they can get paid to sit there.
Sure they can. They just go on the load manifest as a passenger sitting in the right front seat. The "FO" can't log it, and can't fly, but they can get paid to sit there.
12-20-2011, 02:06 PM
#99
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 175
Again, "most charter operators" can't just "throw CFIs into the right seat to make pax feel better" because their OpSpecs don't allow for that.
Sure they can. They just go on the load manifest as a passenger sitting in the right front seat. The "FO" can't log it, and can't fly, but they can get paid to sit there.
Sure they can. They just go on the load manifest as a passenger sitting in the right front seat. The "FO" can't log it, and can't fly, but they can get paid to sit there.
Boiler was under the assumption that most 135 operators are on the up and up and actually follow all the regulations. CFIs routinely fly right seat in King Air type a/c and illegally log it.
12-20-2011, 02:15 PM
#100
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Not ragging on Boiler...he is a wise poster....allegedly 
Edit.....come to think of it....is that what happened in the Wellstone crash?
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