Systemized

Time is money.

Earning $500/hr flying 5-10 hours a month is not the same as earning $22-$43/hr flying 70-90 hours a month.

I would imagine that not every pilot earns their income from just flying.

Colnago

The value of something is subjective matter. What are your goals?
If instant gratification in quality of life is your goal, then you're doing "ok" right now sleeping in your bed every night.

However, if you have higher careers aspirations, then you're just shooting yourself in the foot and I think you know it. Your idea of "valuable" may not be so black and white, after all.

PilotJ3

Oh yeah... I remember I flew banners for $40hr, flight instructed for 25$hr and flew bank checks for $200 a day (at the same time), going into a regional still was a pay increase. 2nd year pay starting now at 35$. So still $5 more than your saratoga.

And if you haven't seen Atlas requirements they want Transport Airplane time, something you have to trade to get into a 747.


Back to the thread...everybody should vote NO for this TA. Help the jr guys like me and a lot of us. This will give capt a small increase in $$$ until 2014, then you guys will regret it.

We clearly can see that out CEO say something to the MEC and the pilots, but then he's crying in the White House! Way to go Eagle Management...!!!

DashDriverYV

I've heard this mantra before. We need to give concessions to save the company, its the best we can get right now. Wanna guess how that worked out? Orstain still drove it into the ground with cheap labor. Vote no. They need us more than we need them, especially in two years.

PilotJ3

Totally Agree!!!

JamesNoBrakes

The problem is one of supply and demand. Somewhere along the lines every up and comming business (airline) was allowed to pop up and compete, and once they were "alive", they were kept afloat by bail-outs and by ever-reducing pay, benefits, customer comforts, and so on. Many of these airlines should have died out, but we ran into the problem of "well, if you let this business collapse, think of all the lost jobs and people that will be out of work!", so it allows the industry to sink ever lower. The bottom-feeders drag everyone down. Then we get to where we are today, which is the opposite of what you want in any business. There is way way too much supply (parked airplanes, routes, etc) and not even close to enough demand. The bottom line is that there are way too many airlines, way too many planes, and way too many pilots.

When push comes to shove, we'd rather save a few jobs and drag the industry lower.

And yes, you can earn $50+ as a flight instructor, in fact I could earn $65K if I wanted to go to full-zombie mode, but at that point it's not worth it.

embraer

I had a well thought out comment to add to this discussion....

Then I read somebody actually say they will go from flying a Warrior to the right seat of a 747 at Atlas.

I must confess that I have now lost track of what I was going to say... And feel a little dizzy.

I will return later after my bewilderment passes.

KingBird50

The Sky is falling The Sky is falling! When I was in 3rd grade I learned this thing in economics called the law of supply and demand. The airlines hate to acknowledge this but there is no shortage of pilots, at least for companies willing to pay. Why does everyone want to fly for the majors? It is not because of the big shiny jet but because of the pay scale. Money and a life thats what I want and that does not happen at the regionals.

embraer

I fly for a regional. I'm home every night with only a few exceptions. No, I have not been with the company for a very long time.

Pay could always be better.. But I more than make a living with my salary. And I have to admit I have a taste for the elegant. Every job out there is tough in the beginning.

Regarding the pilot shortage..the numbers are plain to see. There is no "if". Pilots have no choice but to retire at age 65... Many retire prior to 65. The current "supply" of pilot to replace them is small and getting smaller.

Danny boy even admitted to this. As a CFI at one of the largest flight schools in the DFW area we were kept afloat by international students. The few Americans we had were mainly middle aged weekend warriors who were not pursuing an aviation career.

Financing for those who still want to do it has dried out. Those with daddy's money to spend are increasingly turned off by the low starting pay vs high investment.

What more proof do some people need???

afterburn81

Hearing a very large airline that has been around for quite some time talk about 100's retiring every day in addition to possibly furloughing. That's the proof.

Supply and demand used to be an easy principle to understand. It' influences many things in life. However, aviation is quite unique. The industry is shrinking (no longer growing), survives on small profit margins and some of it's largest expenses are extremely volatile and uncontrollable. ie. weather, fuel, congested airports etc.

The easiest factor to manipulate is the pilot group. We are "protected" by a union that is in bed with management themselves. That's an issue. Our work rules and experience requirements are less than most regulated by the DOT. The companies will squeeze every last bit out of the pilot groups that they can.

My point is, this "supply and demand" principle we talk of with respect to the pilot groups is a crock. The airlines with fight the grave to see it that the pilot group never has the upper hand. They will lobby more money than it would cost in the end if they had just let the FAA change the law. If one pilot group gets a HUGE change in compensation/QOL then they we all start going in that direction. Like a wave. The airlines know this.

The industry has to right itself and doesn't seem as if it will unless the whole thing collapses and starts over new. Pilots have more control over this than they think. But no one wants to nut up.

Just my 02.