F9 A319

Lets see.

Flight School (College) through Commercial and CFI and maybe CFII, I don’t recall.

Ultra Lights for 3 months at 8,200’ MSL.

Border town in Texas, Bug Dropping, Flight Instructing, Night Freight into Mexico (No US laws broken) – single engine.

One day, $395, Multi Engine rating with L. E. Clark in Ponder, TX, PA-23, Apache.

Lots of PA-31 Navajo time in Mexico – Thank God nothing went seriously awry for a couple of hundred hours.

Pilot Services – single & multi.

Night Freight into the US (poor judgement, learned from that, statute of limitations expired) – single and multi – single pilot.

Left in a hurry.

Night Freight (the politically correct kind with boxes) in a PA-31 (part 135) – single pilot. Again, thank God nothing went seriously awry for awhile.

King-Air -90 A, B and E, -200, Cheyenne II, Air Ambulance and Charter (part 135) – single pilot.

Lear 24 & 25 Air Ambulance and Charter (part 135) – Co-Pilot.

Lear 35 & G-100 world wide Charter (part 135) – Captain (DO and Chief Pilot).

Citation I, II, Hawker 400 fan, Westwind I (part 135) – Captain (Chief Pilot, Director of Training, Check Airman).

Part 121 job (737) at age 33 with 5 type ratings – First Officer for 5 months.

Upgrade to Captain.

Line and Sim Check Airman 3 months later (I did Captain OE for the guy one number junior to me) for 8 years.

Flight Training Manager for a year.

Back to Line Check Airman, for a year and a half I didn't fly with anyone that had more than 40 hours in their seat.

I also served as Training Committee Chair, Safety Committee Chair, Representation Chair, System Board Chair and on the E-Board throughout that time for our union.

Based on the above, I feel I’m qualified in making the statement, A 400 hour pilot (let alone a 250 hour pilot) doesn’t remotely compare to a 3,000 to 5,000 hour pilot.

I must agree that the quality of flight time is very important. I rode support for a re-check (for their job) of a 12,000 hour FO that stalled the airplane on a V1 cut. When we hit the ground, the pilot turned to me and asked, "Why was it going down, I was pulling back?" That pilot had 95% of their time in a two pilot, hard ball, turbine twin but the majority of that time was day VMC.

I also had to fail a pilot that had been a 15+ year, 121, jet, Captain in the airplane (737) he'd been flying for probably as long as I had been in aviation. He had failed 2 upgrade rides and on his check for going back to FO, he initiated a RTO - from the right seat (Captain flying) - for an engine fire above V1 among other problems.

I was a 400 hour pilot and I remember how little I knew, my one advantage was that I didn’t believe I could be killed. I was a 1,000 pilot, still didn’t know a lot.

Now at 15,000+, I’m still learning and many of those lessons come from pilots with less time than I have.

A single pilot, hard ball, piston twin pilot with less than 1,500 hours has no business in an 121 jet operation. I’m sure that will be an unpopular statement, but, what the heck, it’s just my opinion….

PDTPILOT

Usmc-sgt, first of all I love the name, I was a sgt in the corps myself. Second, I have to disagree. I was hired with 250 hrs at a 121 operation and didn't have much problem passing, and haven't had problems ( knock on wood) the 4 years I've been here. We had guys with the 1000+ hours they got from being a CFI, and a lot of them washed out. Ur either ready or not, studying and focusing on situation at hand is how you pass. The cfi's that washed out had various reasons but most didn't know how to work in a 2 man cockpit, they tried to run the show and they got overloaded. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being a CFI but u could have 3000 hours in a c-172 but that doesnt mean your a shoe-in when u get to the airlines. I'm sure u know, it's a whole different beast

HercDriver130

Well Said.

afterburn81

Yeah that 400hr vs 1000+ hr pilot is a pretty idiotic argument. Now I agree that a pilot that shouldn't be a pilot at 1000+ is no better than he is at 400 hours. It's just common sense. Most pilots use their experience to make themselves better pilots. Hence why you are usually a better pilot after a 600 hr difference. If you are pilot good enough to hang in the 121 world and do so with skill, then you will be even BETTER after 600 hrs. Simple concept. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to be challenging.

MusicPilot

Agreed!

You mean a 250 hour guy can make it through a 121 training environment? That's impossible! But wait, here you sit living proof that it can happen. It's the person that makes a pilot.

Just because someone has a ton of time under their belt doesn't mean they know how to fly a plane, or should I say, shouldn't be flying a plane.

F9 A319

Time and mistakes, that one learns from, are (most generally) what makes the difference between 250 hours and 1,000, 3,000, 5,000 and on hours.

When I sign a new Captain off, I give each of them the same advice. That is, "Unless you create an environment in your cockpit that the FO feels comfortable to offer suggestions and share information, you are done learning. This is a bad time for you to stop learning."

That being said, it blows my mind when a Captain calls their FO a "Co-Captain."

The industry has taken away much of the Captains ability or authority to make decisions on their own, but that's no excuse to turf decisions onto Dispatch or Maintenance that a Captain, with their FO's input, should be making on their own.

I've heard pilots say, "Why should I make a decision that might get me in trouble when I can just send it over to Dispatch, SOC or Maintenance Control (or God forbid, the Gate Agent)." IMO, that's what a Captain gets paid for, that and preparing their FO for becoming a good Captain.

As far as the back goes, I'm fortunate to fly with very experienced F/A's, so I generally go with and support their assessment of passenger behavior, cabin conditions or problems.

"Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment."

"Experience is not what happens to a man. It is what a man does with what happens to him. "

Gajre539

Well said!

Wingtips

Great rant, but I still disagree. Being a CFI does not mean squat. You can have 1000 hours and 50 to 100ish multi, and gone many paths. You could have that time in a cub flying banners, which teaches you THAT AIRSPEED IS LIFE!!!! You could have that time flying skydivers, with more takeoffs/landing and experience with ATC then you know what do with in 1000 hours, or you could do surveying, flying all over America with some IFR and a good idea of what a hotel room feels like.

Sitting next to someone tell them what to do, letting them know whats a 'great job' they are doing and grabbing the plane when you get scared............sounds like the roots of everyone's least favorite captain.

Flight schools do not teach you how to truly decide if a plane is safe, nor put any pressure on not taking one that might be legal and safe but someone might just turn down. Do not allow you to get good radio skills, nor FLY THE PLANE YOURSELF ALL THE TIME!! Do not put a CFI on a pedestal. I would take 1000 hours of banner towing and night cargo in a 206 to a CFI in a Seminole ANY DAY.

PDTPILOT

Well said sir.....this is the thing, everyone is going to think the way they did it was the right way. Those who instructed are going to think that's the best way and they'll try to defend that. Same goes for how everyone else got their time.... I think a lot of it comes down to jealousy, pilots who needed 2000 hrs to get hired at a regional now see guys with 250 and they feel a little resentment...truth is I don't care who u are, if airlines back in the day were hiring with 250 hrs they would b taking the job. I guess I get a little edgy when I hear people say in so many words that they are better pilots cause they instructed.

F9 A319

I agree, to a point. I had students teach me that airspeed was life (high speed and low speed) in 172's, corporate jets and airliners. I had the same "pucker" response in all aircraft.

I AM a better pilot because I instructed. Until you can teach something, you don't really know it. Whether it's a sim training event, a discipline or termination event a counseling event or whatever, you learn a lot when it isn't about you. Someone that hasn't instructed won't ever get it. Your job is to communicate to the best of your abilities what the student needs to know. Again, I'm talking 172, Citation, 737 or beyond. I believe I'm an excellent communicator, but I have had students I couldn't reach, I turned them over to another IP. I have friends that are excellent communicators that have had to turn students over to me.

It's not that anyone is better than another, it's just some people respond better to one person than the other.

I didn't do much part 91 instructing, most of mine has been 121 and, to a lessor degree part 135 in jets. I actually picked up a Fed, he watched me train myself in a Citation I, we landed, took off and I gave myself a 135 checkride, that's how I became a CAM on the CE-500.

I've flown airliner aircraft where the trainee or even line pilot tried to do a crosswind landing by touching down on the upwind wheel that I'm sure put my engine within millimeters of the asphalt. I've had pilots flare 100 feet too early and been amazed that we didn't tear the tail off. (I so miss the Boeing, the friggin Airbus is a set up for failure with a weak pilot). I'm not into taking the aircraft and the Bus doesn't let me know what the other guy is thinking or doing.

What I have learned is that while I like to fly, I love to teach. There's no better feeling than showing up with a first day new hire and saying, "Let's go have fun" and putting them at ease, which is the state in which they will learn the most.

I will remember forever the experiences I've had training pilots I like to be Captains, pilots that have been FO's for 15 years or so and FINALLY get to be Captain. I really like it when they say, "I'm a bit nervous about this." My standard response is, "That's great, it shows you have a clear understanding of the situation."

When I did my Captain OE, my Check Airman was one of the best pilots I have ever flown with and a true Gentleman, ex-Frontier - High line Twin Otters, Convair, DC-3, 737, ex-CAL, then new Frontier. I told him I thought I might be sick, he said lets go out and see how you feel after 2 legs. It was only nerves, I was fine because he was such a wonderful man (John Landwehr from Boulder, if anyone knows him).

John tried to teach me things about energy management and other finer points of being a professional aviator, bearing in mind that I had 5 jet types and 6,000 hours.

Some of his points I understood, some of the things he said, I had to respond, "I know you're trying to teach me something important but I'm trying to fly straight and level in the pattern and land successfully, I may understand your points at sometime in my career, but right now I'm maxed out." He understood. I wish I could fly with him today.

The bottom line, I was born 20 years too late. I'm intensely jealous of the pilots that got to be airline Captains when it meant something. Yeah, we crashed a little more often but I'd rather that than what we have now.

If I could have had the life that the FAA administrator, Randy Babbitt, had I'd be happy. And yes, I've had the privilege of hearing his stories first hand.