Program offers ASA / Delta interview to UNDrs
10-31-2011, 06:33 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: the correct seat
Posts: 1,422
What do these "jet transition" classes that the big universities actually teach you anyway? For the life of me, I can't figure out what they'd include that you wouldn't get by the end of your sim training anyway? Even if they are indeed putting these guys into RJ sims, as a newly minted RJ pilot myself, I've already seen the difference between the carefully calculated and controlled sim environment, and the organized chaos that is a busy class B on a bad weather day.
If there are any new guys reading this thread trying to decide if you should fork over big money to go to the big school, don't bother. It really isn't worth it.
If there are any new guys reading this thread trying to decide if you should fork over big money to go to the big school, don't bother. It really isn't worth it.
10-31-2011, 08:05 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: pǝʇɹǝʌuı
Posts: 228
Other schools to follow shortly, big box schools. bigger than UND. cough cough.
What many of those pilots waiting on the sidelines hope for IS the interview. And although, on paper, in an interview they trump almost everything about these pipeline candidates, if there is no interview, there is no job.
I don't think the worry of a 1200hr pilot at Delta is a concern. Closely monitored from the beginning, a recent graduate works for a year and gains 750 hours at the flight school. These numbers are in line with the proposed amendments to the 1500hr which allow "credit" from advanced training, jet courses, etc. The flight school doesn't want them to leave because many are already leaving in droves as it is, CFI's are becoming a commodity in the race to the bottom.
The pilot then goes to ASA for 2 years and builds another, say, 1500 hours. Still a low time pilot at around 2250TT. No notable PIC time, some jet experience, and being part of the program...expecting an interview...something that captain can't get because he doesn't have recs. or these pipeline candidates have priority.
There is no advantage for Delta other than the fact that they are bright eyed, bushy tailed, and the candidates have an "owe big D" mentality. They may, in fact, be a liability. The "stringent" Delta interview isn't dumbed down, but if you've been watching people for a long time you start to get a feel for their decisions and personality. The idea of an intern getting hired. Recommendations. Management likes the program, so they select candidates from it, etc etc.
ASA solves its immediate staffing needs and doesn't have to worry about people looking for a decent contract, "Hey, I'll only be here two years" or "I'm not looking to stick around here, I'll be at Delta soon". They play nice so they get the recommendation to continue to Delta.
The flight schools benefit from better instructor retention, marketing, and a truly comprehensive flight program that allows them to outsell other training options.
I don't see it being as bad as others have said, more akin to the chief pilot's son or someone with connections getting an interview before someone else who "deserves" it or "put their time in".
Do I agree with it? Not really. It's misleading to a prospective student and really an un-enforceable agreement which could leave pilots unhappy that they haven't gotten their call yet because the flight school, ASA, or Delta aren't hiring. It is a continuation of not necessarily the entitlement problem of Gen Y but of the selfish mentality of most pilots. If I do this, it's only going to affect me, and I'll get my time and get out.
What I do see is what many of the others have already voiced; a lack of respect for these pipeline pilots. Ask the Spirit pilots how their bridge program worked out about 2 years ago with ERAU. Ask those bridge pilots how they were treated.
Other programs like this are happening now with CapeAir/JetBlue and Spirit ground instructors. The first group of these are about to head towards the line in the next year...
Life is unfair/expensive.
What many of those pilots waiting on the sidelines hope for IS the interview. And although, on paper, in an interview they trump almost everything about these pipeline candidates, if there is no interview, there is no job.
I don't think the worry of a 1200hr pilot at Delta is a concern. Closely monitored from the beginning, a recent graduate works for a year and gains 750 hours at the flight school. These numbers are in line with the proposed amendments to the 1500hr which allow "credit" from advanced training, jet courses, etc. The flight school doesn't want them to leave because many are already leaving in droves as it is, CFI's are becoming a commodity in the race to the bottom.
The pilot then goes to ASA for 2 years and builds another, say, 1500 hours. Still a low time pilot at around 2250TT. No notable PIC time, some jet experience, and being part of the program...expecting an interview...something that captain can't get because he doesn't have recs. or these pipeline candidates have priority.
There is no advantage for Delta other than the fact that they are bright eyed, bushy tailed, and the candidates have an "owe big D" mentality. They may, in fact, be a liability. The "stringent" Delta interview isn't dumbed down, but if you've been watching people for a long time you start to get a feel for their decisions and personality. The idea of an intern getting hired. Recommendations. Management likes the program, so they select candidates from it, etc etc.
ASA solves its immediate staffing needs and doesn't have to worry about people looking for a decent contract, "Hey, I'll only be here two years" or "I'm not looking to stick around here, I'll be at Delta soon". They play nice so they get the recommendation to continue to Delta.
The flight schools benefit from better instructor retention, marketing, and a truly comprehensive flight program that allows them to outsell other training options.
I don't see it being as bad as others have said, more akin to the chief pilot's son or someone with connections getting an interview before someone else who "deserves" it or "put their time in".
Do I agree with it? Not really. It's misleading to a prospective student and really an un-enforceable agreement which could leave pilots unhappy that they haven't gotten their call yet because the flight school, ASA, or Delta aren't hiring. It is a continuation of not necessarily the entitlement problem of Gen Y but of the selfish mentality of most pilots. If I do this, it's only going to affect me, and I'll get my time and get out.
What I do see is what many of the others have already voiced; a lack of respect for these pipeline pilots. Ask the Spirit pilots how their bridge program worked out about 2 years ago with ERAU. Ask those bridge pilots how they were treated.
Other programs like this are happening now with CapeAir/JetBlue and Spirit ground instructors. The first group of these are about to head towards the line in the next year...
Life is unfair/expensive.
10-31-2011, 08:19 PM
#63
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 84
delta isnt going to hire someone with 1200tt so they can publish whatever they want. They're just using it as a ploy to get people into the program. After the retirements start up and the wave is in full force then its possible they'll take people with lower time but it wont be anytime in the near future.
The majors and regionals are going to be strapped for pilots. When the major's start hiring they will only hire the junior FO's. Senior FO's and Captains will NOT have opportunities to be hired. This is because they need RJ's to continue flying. Does not matter how much flight time you have. They will hook young naieve pilots, that will skirt 'waiting for 1000 hours PIC' in order to keep the RJ's flying.
'The Gentlemans Agreement' = Don't hire our captains. Keep our RJ's flying and we will provide you jet experienced FO's. The promise of quick career progression will provide a steady flow of students. The 12 year captain pay is the more affordable choice, when compared to losing money due to lack of pilots.
Edit/Add: I hope I'm wrong, but it's not below management to conspire against pilots to keep the planes moving.
11-01-2011, 02:39 AM
#64
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
"Guaranteed interview" programs have been around for ages... Most majors that have internship programs will guarantee former participants interviews when they reach a particular set of requirements.
Don't get all balled up over something as simple as a partnership between a university and an airline. Programs like this one have been around for a while. the details might vary, but in all it's similar to other agreements that many of the schools have implemented in the past.
As for spending the money, is it worth it? Only each individual can tell. Based on the numbers I've seen, UND would cost about $103K for a professional flight degree (out of state tuition first year, in state the following three, and flight fees), plus an additional 25k for room and board.
It's gone up since I went through 10 years ago, but for me I feel the cost was justified. Hired at an airline with low time, into a CRJ, the steady career progression. Today I'm flying at a Fortune 50 company in a job that I hope lasts the rest of my life. UND certainly played a role.
Don't get all balled up over something as simple as a partnership between a university and an airline. Programs like this one have been around for a while. the details might vary, but in all it's similar to other agreements that many of the schools have implemented in the past.
As for spending the money, is it worth it? Only each individual can tell. Based on the numbers I've seen, UND would cost about $103K for a professional flight degree (out of state tuition first year, in state the following three, and flight fees), plus an additional 25k for room and board.
It's gone up since I went through 10 years ago, but for me I feel the cost was justified. Hired at an airline with low time, into a CRJ, the steady career progression. Today I'm flying at a Fortune 50 company in a job that I hope lasts the rest of my life. UND certainly played a role.
11-01-2011, 04:01 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: A320
Posts: 1,316
They'll be sure to teach you the good stuff. Like how to never give a PA. Or how "if it ain't clackin, you're slackin". My all time favorite is our thunderstorm technique. "Don't hesitate, penetrate". Or "maximum speed for minimum exposure". I hope you don't think I'm joking. The things that I see, just amaze me. And if someone has low time or they aren't all that assertive, im not sure they would take anything good from some of these guys. You would hear "well, I saw HIM do it".
I'd say the airplane is a bettor mentor than a lot of the Captains that don't want to be there any more.
Last edited by afterburn81; 11-01-2011 at 05:34 AM.
11-01-2011, 05:05 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FO - 757/767
Posts: 1,228
This is a brilliant move by all involved. The university and the airlines get highly motivated candidates who will self-fund their flight training and who will do anything to keep the Delta interview. It's the ultimate carrot. The companies get "yes men" and the candidate, who has to suck it up for a few years, gets an interview at the big "D"!
Btw, the comment about regional airline pics on fb(the bill murray avatar), that was funny! So true.
11-01-2011, 06:55 AM
#67
Respek
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,635
11-01-2011, 04:46 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: CR7/9 Left
Posts: 101
This has little to do with Delta, and everything to do with ASA competing for the limited (if almost non-existent) pool of qualified (for an RJ) wet commercial certificate pilots. ASA can hear the sucking sound coming...(retirements).
11-01-2011, 05:08 PM
#69
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
So why do I hear furlough talk at ASA? Honest question, not trying flame/troll/whatever. Also, how bad is it getting out there for the regionals to find pilots? Maybe some folks are in the loop with the HR depts.. Rgards to all,
11-01-2011, 05:11 PM
#70
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 34
Exactly. Delta is very concerned about their regionals having enough pilots to staff planes in the future.
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